AF-100 Wishlist/Suggestion Discussion Thread

[averan]

{you beat me to it Isaac!}

there are 2 ways to look at a possible equipment purchase:

1. spend as little as possible and see how far you can stretch your guerrilla filmmaking skills to cover the lack of proper gear
2. buy the good/expensive stuff because it gets the job done at the level of quality you want and go out and find work to pay it off

in reality, we probably all fluctuate a bit between these 2 states, but those in the #2 group will have a much easier time of it and produce higher quality work with much less stress and effort. there is a very different mindset once you're in the professional bracket, but this forum is for both types of users/consumers so we must play nice!

that said, this camera really isn't intended for the hobbyist.....although, other higher-budget professionals would disagree!

so if anyone can't see themselves spending $6k on a professional video camera (ex1 anyone?), then they probably aren't quite ready to make the leap yet and will be happier with the gh1 and other gear that is within their current budget. of course, they are free to dream of getting their hands on pro cameras for hobbyist prices! =)

 

[Ben_B]

prior to the DSLR craze this site was geared more towards the "prosumer" content creators and filmmakers.

I know, I was here I've shot many a project on the DVX, HVX, and EX1.

I think some of the confusion on price is that this camera has many similarities to the HMC-150, a $3500 camera, and the GH1, a $1500 camera, except it doesn't come with a lens, and is being priced at $6,000.

Anyway I suspect the price will actually be lower than that at launch.

 

[Tzedekh]

I know, I was here I've shot many a project on the DVX, HVX, and EX1.

I think some of the confusion on price is that this camera has many similarities to the HMC-150, a $3500 camera, and the GH1, a $1500 camera, except it doesn't come with a lens, and is being priced at $6,000.

Anyway I suspect the price will actually be lower than that at launch.

Plus there's the fixed-lens Scarlet, which started this whole "digital-cinema camera for well under $10K" trend. Yes, I know Scarlet is at least a year and a half behind schedule and is as yet vaporware, but the AF100 hasn't been released yet, either. And Scarlet's currently anticipated price (which could change again in mid-May) is 58% higher than that originally announced in 2008. But much of that price increase can be attributed to the whole modularization of the Scarlet and Epic product lines. Still, Scarlet will come with a lens, has an expensive sensor, and will probably be manufactured to a quality level at least as good as the AF100's. Aside from the smaller sensor, it promises to be a worthy competitor to the AF100, and it's not locked into 1080p. And at this time its price is still less than the AF100's. So the argument that professional video gear has to be really expensive appears to be losing more weight every day.

 

[dcloud]

i prefer the scarlet s35 Unfortunately itll be way above what i can afford.

if the af100 Street price goes down to around 5200 or below, Id love this cam

and one thing that annoys me on things i read around the net is they dont like the avchd.

avccam avchd is not dvcprohd or avc-i but if people shoot with the ex1's xdcam codec or hdslr's codec, then avchd is definitely good enough.

 

[Barry_Green]

Not so much a rip, but he makes a good point about perspective. There's the hobbyist who doesn't make their bread and butter from their equipment and who often complains the loudest and wants everything for cheap. This camera is priced out of the hobbyist crowd, which is good. It's not being made for the casual hobbyist, but at the same time the hobbyist DSLR crowd is complaining about price as if the camera is geared for them. This camera isn't for the DSLR user, that's pretty clear. I wouldn't take offense so easily Ben.

What's happened on DVXuser in the past year is that prior to the DSLR craze this site was geared more towards the "prosumer" content creators and filmmakers. The DSLR has changed that dynamic and at times it's frustrating for the old longterm users to have to deal with the complaining and requests of the DSLR user who want more more more for less and want it immediately.

Brilliant observation. Agreed entirely.

 

[Isaac_Brody]

But much of that price increase can be attributed to the whole modularization of the Scarlet and Epic product lines. Still, Scarlet will come with a lens, has an expensive sensor, and will probably be manufactured to a quality level at least as good as the AF100's. Aside from the smaller sensor, it promises to be a worthy competitor to the AF100, and it's not locked into 1080p. And at this time its price is still less than the AF100's. So the argument that professional video gear has to be really expensive appears to be losing more weight every day.

Scarlet isn't a worthy competitor until it's released. And Red has already said that Epic comes first and since the Epic schedule is a little behind you will be lucky to hold a Scarlet in your hand this time next year.

Panasonic sticks to release dates, they've been doing this a lot longer then Red and until Red releases something concrete that isn't subject to change you can't really compare it price wise. I don't know why people give Red a free pass when it comes to delivery dates and features. Anyway, back on topic, AF100 specs... :happy:

 

[Tzedekh]

Scarlet isn't a worthy competitor until it's released. And Red has already said that Epic comes first and since the Epic schedule is a little behind you will be lucky to hold a Scarlet in your hand this time next year.

Maybe, but Scarlet is supposedly on track for this year. And in all fairness, the AF100 doesn't exist yet either. So what if it comes out a little sooner?

Panasonic sticks to release dates, they've been doing this a lot longer then Red and until Red releases something concrete that isn't subject to change you can't really compare it price wise.

Considering neither company has released its product, there really is nothing to compare.

I don't know why people give Red a free pass when it comes to delivery dates and features.

Really? Over on the Red and Scarlet forums, there's been a fair amount of bitching about missed release dates, but considering the features claimed for Epic and Scarlet, nothing else will compare in their respective price ranges, so Red's being cut some slack. And you're right, Panasonic has been doing this a lot longer than Red, and they enjoy far greater manufacturing economies of scale than Red. And I think that's the point -- there's some belief that they should be able to do it faster, cheaper, and better than Red.

 

[Isaac_Brody]

Let's keep the Scarlet discussion out of this please.

 

[David Saraceno]

AF100 hasn't existed for a far shorter time than the Scarlett.

The point being is that Panasonic will bring this camera to its market this year as promised.

It always has, and that's why I'm looking forward to it.

On the substantive side, what would I look for as an adapter to use my Nikon D300 lenses (wide and telephone AF) with AF100?

thanks

 

[Kellar42]

Do they have aperture rings? I use a fotodiox adapter from Amazon on my GH1 for Nikon and it works great!

 

[Rory_B]

i prefer the scarlet s35 Unfortunately itll be way above what i can afford.

if the af100 Street price goes down to around 5200 or below, Id love this cam

and one thing that annoys me on things i read around the net is they dont like the avchd.

avccam avchd is not dvcprohd or avc-i but if people shoot with the ex1's xdcam codec or hdslr's codec, then avchd is definitely good enough.

For a camera that is meant for professionals, having a codec that is good enough seems like a bit of a short-sell on an otherwise good-looking feature set. Granted there's HD-SDI out, but needless to say having a better built in recording option would be nice. or at least something that isn't a long GOP format.

 

[xmephestox]

that better recording board could mean the difference in a 6k priced camera, and a 10k priced camera... DVCPRO HD is an outdated codec, it has a lot issues in itself, so that's no good. AVC INTRA, the encoder board is expensive. people want 6 thousand or under. Getting a ki pro or something along those lines will price your camera exactly to where it would be if they allowed intra recording and p2 support.

LONG GOP recording has grown leaps and bounds over the years, and has corrected a lot of the issues over the years. You gain the lower bandwidth for cheaper shooting medium, incredible visually, and if we are talking color space. I've seen 4:2:0 key perfectly, off a 5d MK II. Where it inherently has a crappy way of encoding h264, and has tons of issues that are besides the point. Having a very sharp lens, and excellent noise floor can give you a lot of pushing room in keying and color correction. You'd seriously be surprised.

 

[Rory_B]

I still prefer having every frame be an I frame, rather than every 15 frames. I don't like to tether, but like I said at least it's an option. Just would prefer p2 or something like that since I've never had an issue with a card in the years I've used them.

HVX200 and P2 is like wielding a mini tank in yours hands. Wind, Rain, Sleet, and Snow the combo was more reliable than the Post Office. If I had a choice of a P2 model or a SDHC Card model I would spend an extra 2k on the p2 version.

But at the very least a non long-GOP format and I'd be happy. But plenty of folks for them to have to please, so obviously not everything is gonna get in there.

 

[xmephestox]

a lot of people will agree with you on that, a lot wouldn't. some are still clamoring for it to drop another few thousand dollars. ~shrugs~ it's gonna be a neat camera either way

 

[Rory_B]

a lot of people will agree with you on that, a lot wouldn't. some are still clamoring for it to drop another few thousand dollars. ~shrugs~ it's gonna be a neat camera either way

We both can agree on that and I still think prices will be priced relatively decently once it comes out. I'm just hoping the canadian dollar stays strong in the meantime, so I can take advantage of US pricing unlike back when I bought my HVX.

Time to open up a US Bank account and start stuffing it with dollar bills. Or loonies as we say up here.

 

[dcloud]

im saying avchd is not bad.

would i prefer p2 avcintra/dvcpro? absolutely.
but this is whats available. no need to look down on a decent codec thats better than other long gop codec

 

[Rory_B]

im saying avchd is not bad.

would i prefer p2 avcintra/dvcpro? absolutely.
but this is whats available. no need to look down on a decent codec thats better than other long gop codec

Didn't mean to have it sound as if I was attacking you for your statement or that I was looking down on the codec per say. It has it's place in certain situations, I would just prefer as robust a codec as possible is all.

 

[dcloud]

no offense taken.

i totally understand. I too would want a p2 version if i were a client.

but as a filmmaker/equipment rental the current version is fine

 

[Kholi]

Not so much a rip, but he makes a good point about perspective. There's the hobbyist who doesn't make their bread and butter from their equipment and who often complains the loudest and wants everything for cheap. This camera is priced out of the hobbyist crowd, which is good. It's not being made for the casual hobbyist, but at the same time the hobbyist DSLR crowd is complaining about price as if the camera is geared for them. This camera isn't for the DSLR user, that's pretty clear. I wouldn't take offense so easily Ben.

What's happened on DVXuser in the past year is that prior to the DSLR craze this site was geared more towards the "prosumer" content creators and filmmakers. The DSLR has changed that dynamic and at times it's frustrating for the old longterm users to have to deal with the complaining and requests of the DSLR user who want more more more for less and want it immediately.

When is DVxuser going to get a Hell Yes button?

 

[mikkowilson]

Back on topic with CONSTRUCTIVE feature requests, please.


No more talk of Scarlet in this thread. Under penalty of instant 2 day vacation. It doesn't belong here. Period.

Also, the multiple requests for P2 formats have also been made. So we can move on past that also. And debating the "target market" for this camera can also go somewhere else too.



If you have no feature suggestions to ADD to this thread; then do not post here. Thank you.

- Mikko


WWHD