1DC: advice needed: 1DX Mark II or 1DC, unsure which to get

N

Nicholas Natteau

Veteran
I've long been using the Canon C300 for documentary film work. But as I will now be shooting everything in 4K, I'm planning on getting either the older Canon 1DC or the new 1DX Mark II. I'm just not sure which one to choose.

Unfortunately the Canon C300 Mark II is way out of my budget. The C100 Mark II isn't 4K capable. And as it doesn't seem that there is a C100 Mark III (that might be 4K capable) coming any time soon, that pretty much narrows it down to two (sub-$10K) 4K capable Canon choices: 1DC or 1DX2. I prefer to stick with Canon because I've always loved their color science. I've worked with the GH4, A7s and A7sII, but I've always found it much easier to grade with Canon C-Log.

I was about to consider the 1DC until Canon announced the 1DX Mark II which is $2K less than the 1DC and comes with dual pixel CMOS auto focusing. But of course no C-Log. Would that be a significant disadvantage and is it worth paying the extra $2K for C-Log? C-Log aside, is there anything else the 1DC has that the 1DX Mark II doesn't to justify the extra $2K.

Thank you in advance for your help and feedback.
 
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IMO, it depends on whether you do a lot of low-light shooting or not. There 1DX MKII should come out far ahead.

In general, however, I'd go with (sorry, Canon folks) FS7 at this point in time for video. Get an adapter if you have a ton of Canon glass. In terms of 4K, Canon just isn't competing with Sony on the sub-$10,000 niche right now.

And, if you want to go budget and need low light anyway, A7SII + Shogun Assassin will give you 4K XAVC internal or ProRes external. Quality-wise, I just don't see Canon's sub-$10,000 offering all that compelling. Others might disagree but ... oh, well.
 
Nicholas Natteau said:
I've long been using the Canon C300 for documentary film work. But as I will now be shooting everything in 4K, I'm planning on getting either the older Canon 1DC or the new 1DX Mark II. I'm just not sure which one to choose.

Unfortunately the Canon C300 Mark II is way out of my budget. The C100 Mark II isn't 4K capable. And as it doesn't seem that there is a C100 Mark III (that might be 4K capable) coming any time soon, that pretty much narrows it down to two (sub-$10K) 4K capable Canon choices: 1DC or 1DX2. I prefer to stick with Canon because I've always loved their color science. I've worked with the GH4, A7s and A7sII, but I've always found it much easier to grade with Canon C-Log.

I was about to consider the 1DC until Canon announced the 1DX Mark II which is $2K less than the 1DC and comes with dual pixel CMOS auto focusing. But of course no C-Log. Would that be a significant disadvantage and is it worth paying the extra $2K for C-Log? C-Log aside, is there anything else the 1DC has that the 1DX Mark II doesn't to justify the extra $2K.

Thank you in advance for your help and feedback.
Click to expand...

1DX II doesn't have:

Canon Log
S35 crop mode
12 hour video length limit (instead of 29min59sec)
Line level audio input
In-camera lens corrections for Canon cinema lenses
 
You can find used 1DCs for $4000-4500, and personally I'd still prefer the 1DXII even if I could get the 1DC at half the price. I can't imagine anyone spending $2k more for an older camera, just for C-LOG. You can still create a flat-ish profile with any Canon dslr. Also after owning a DAF C100, I can't see myself buying a Canon in 2016 without AF, it's just too good for some occasions. The 1DXII just has just too many goodies over the 1DC.

The only reason I can think for getting the 1DC, is if you didn't have the budget for a 1DXII. If you need to record longer than 29:59min just get an external recorder (I imagine you would shoot long sessions in HD?).
 
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One point of interest I am specifically interested in is how the 1DXII handles its dynamic range. Even if it does not have C-Log but some how Canon can squeeze 12+ stops....it could still be a contender. For me...thats the deciding factor. I don't love the 4K codec though. So I will probably shelve this idea as the 1DXII was really never intended to be a video camera. In Canon's defense....they never said it would be.

For me...best option is to wait for NAB and see what pops up.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
For me...best option is to wait for NAB and see what pops up.
Click to expand...

+ I think this close you might as well wait and see.

There could be a C100 MKIII or "5DC" announcement or rumour in that time frame.
If not, you have only lost a couple of months.

Unfortunately waiting for Canon is no longer fashionable.
 
Thank you all very much for your feedback.

• DLD: I've read a lot about the 1DC's fine grain texture quality supposedly attributable to the 500 Mbps data rate. If i were to use the A7s with an Atomos Ninja Assassin and record in Pro Res, would I then get the same high quality texture that I've seen from the 1DC? I haven't used the FS7 yet, and I'm amazed by the low light ability of the A7s and A7sII, it's just that skin tone wise, I've just always had the best results with the Canon C300.
 
Nicholas Natteau said:
... • DLD: I've read a lot about the 1DC's fine grain texture quality supposedly attributable to the 500 Mbps data rate. If i were to use the A7s with an Atomos Ninja Assassin and record in Pro Res, would I then get the same high quality texture that I've seen from the 1DC? I haven't used the FS7 yet, and I'm amazed by the low light ability of the A7s and A7sII, it's just that skin tone wise, I've just always had the best results with the Canon C300.
Click to expand...
I am a big fan of 1D C but it is a 3+ year old technology and, IMO, it's overpriced for a "video only/mostly" work, given today's offerings. Sony may not give you the same rich, popping colors but with the Shogun Assassin (now retailing for $1,000 brand new), you have your choice of ProRes (A7SII and A7RII also have XAVC internal 4K recording).

As to image quality - as a new proud subscriber to the 75 Mbps (tested at 80!) broadband, I have watched a lot of 4K video clips over the last few days and come to a conclusion that, under many circumstances, the image quality basically hit the human eye/monitor limit (both of mine are admittedly old, although my prescription is of a more recent vintage). From specs, we know that A7S/II give a fantastic low light/high ISO performance, A7RII has a very quick auto focus and an oversampled 4K. Samsung NX1 may be the best bang-for-the-buck in 4K (competing with GH4) and Sony's new A6300 ($1,000, 6K oversampled into 4K, super fast AF, claimed 14 stops in Slog3) may blow everyone out of the water once it's shipped.

This is Sony's official clip for their new FE G Master lenses, shot on A7RII. IMO, there's scarcely a reason to pay more than this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXzWoaESyJM
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
One point of interest I am specifically interested in is how the 1DXII handles its dynamic range. Even if it does not have C-Log but some how Canon can squeeze 12+ stops....it could still be a contender. For me...thats the deciding factor. I don't love the 4K codec though. So I will probably shelve this idea as the 1DXII was really never intended to be a video camera. In Canon's defense....they never said it would be.

For me...best option is to wait for NAB and see what pops up.
Click to expand...

Neutral picture profile with contrast all the way down can never be more than 10 stops of DR.
 
AndreeOnline said:
Sure it can. It's only a contrast curve. It maps the signal from full well to black. If the sensor is 15 (real) stops, that is what you'd get.
Click to expand...

This is what I thought as well...and why I was perplexed by the previous statement that only 10 stops was possible.

My hope is that the 1DXII in fact does have 12+ stops in video mode.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
This is what I thought as well...and why I was perplexed by the previous statement that only 10 stops was possible.

My hope is that the 1DXII in fact does have 12+ stops in video mode.
Click to expand...

To store 12 stops of DR you need a special gamma curve (log or hyper gamma), it's not going to happen on a non-C series camera (R&D cost)

Also if 1DX II did 12 stops in video mode, who's gonna buy 1DC (12 stops in Canon Log)? again that's why it's not gonna happen even though technically it's 100% possible.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
One point of interest I am specifically interested in is how the 1DXII handles its dynamic range. Even if it does not have C-Log but some how Canon can squeeze 12+ stops....it could still be a contender. For me...thats the deciding factor. I don't love the 4K codec though. So I will probably shelve this idea as the 1DXII was really never intended to be a video camera. In Canon's defense....they never said it would be.

For me...best option is to wait for NAB and see what pops up.
Click to expand...

Many test shots( photo) for ISO and DR is coming out from all the VVIP CPS or Canon's associates websites

First look is promising. Is possible that the extra DR C-log give is compensated

I ordered my mk2 already because I need the DPAF anyway. I am not going to sell my 1DC though, at least not until a 1DCmk2 become available.

I do not think the list price of the 1DC will drop much more either. When the existing stock of 1DC run out I wish we will see a 1DC MK2 with extra DR using c-log on top of what the 1DX mk2 is offering.
 
Nicholas Natteau said:
Thank you all very much for your feedback.

• DLD: I've read a lot about the 1DC's fine grain texture quality supposedly attributable to the 500 Mbps data rate. If i were to use the A7s with an Atomos Ninja Assassin and record in Pro Res, would I then get the same high quality texture that I've seen from the 1DC? I haven't used the FS7 yet, and I'm amazed by the low light ability of the A7s and A7sII, it's just that skin tone wise, I've just always had the best results with the Canon C300.
Click to expand...

I have both the 1DC and A7SII &7Q+, it is the algorithm that Canon work with color and grain that is making the difference. Sony probably have a much advance sensor, but without the right algorithm it is not giving you what you like. ( a bit like you get the best car engine but you do not have the right transmission/gear box for it)

If you are into really insistent on the Canon the more organic looks from the Canon color and grain you will always something missing from the Sony camera (if you like Pepsi you can tell if they give you a Coke when you ask for a cola) .
 
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Canon 1DC for sale on B and H until end of today. $6500. Looks like maybe a liquidation of remaining inventory??
 
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