C200: About to do a c200 vs ursa mini 4.6 test

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paulrossjones

Member
I have both the cameras today on loan from my local dealer.
I use to own the ursa, but sold it thinking I would get the ursa pro, but then the c200 got released. I know the c200 eats the ursa in AF, ISO and stripped down weight, but the ursa is quite a bit workflow and shoulder mount friendly, and a heap cheaper. It also can take a speed booster inside the mount as some Italian guy has made one that works (the c200 might too- it has some room in there, but no one has tried).

So I will have a few hours today to try the two together. Any requests for tests that aren't too techical? I will shoot like I ususally shoot, some back lit with fast lenses and I'll do some 120fps tests. I'll plonk the cameras both one my tripod somehow and shoot the same stuff moving (not a head shot with a colour card)

So far just playing with the two-

I shot with the c200 yesterday and I like the size and weight, but it's still big. The c200 also needs a lot to make it a comfortable shoulder cam. With a base you need to add a v-mount battery to run an evf or deal with a gratical and another type of battery, same with a video transmitter or follow focus. It's starts to look rigged Dslr very quick.
The ursa, even though almost a kg heavier is so much better on a shoulder. The evf is light years ahead of the the built in c200 one. The screen is larger, the codecs are easy as well as the menu is simple.
The ursa feels far less refined in build quality, but the ursa menu is far better refined than the slightly confusing canon menu. Most Japanese products have bad menus (sonys are the worst), I don't know why they can't get a better designer in to improve these, it can't be rocket science!


Paul
 
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paulrossjones said:
So I will have a few hours today to try the two together. Any requests for tests that aren't too techical?

Paul
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Can you:
Black balance both cameras.
Shoot some 4k raw on both.
Do some low light on both.
Do some autofocus on the C200. I'm curious about your thoughts on autofocus since the BM really isn't an autofocus camera.
I'm curious as to which one you think has the most DR or if they're pretty much the same.
 
Stills2HDConvert said:
Can you:
Black balance both cameras.
Shoot some 4k raw on both.
Do some low light on both.
Do some autofocus on the C200. I'm curious about your thoughts on autofocus since the BM really isn't an autofocus camera.
I'm curious as to which one you think has the most DR or if they're pretty much the same.
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Can I shoot 4k raw (not 4.6)? I'll do that if I can . I guess it's a slightly cropped chip, so will make the sensor more the same size (as the ursa's sensor is slightly larger than canons).
As for AF, the canons is really, really good. It focuses accurately and even when it changes focus points it does it really organically. This is a big seller. I also shoot still with a 5dmkiv all the time and I have been shooting off the back screen ( as I always shoot my stills at f1.0 or f1.2) and been getting 90% sharp. That's compared with 50% with the focus through the finder!
Having said that, the bm evf us very sharp and video isn't as critical for focus as stills imo, and I can manually focus the ursa very easliy and fast . With a video sender you can set up an assist with a decent size screen and focus even better- although that's a bit of a setup.
 
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paulrossjones said:
Can I shoot 4k raw (not 4.6)? I'll do that if I can . I guess it's a slightly cropped chip, so will make the sensor more the same size (as the ursa's sensor is slightly larger than canons).
As for AF, the canons is really, really good. It focuses accurately and even when it changes focus points it does it really organically. This is a big seller. I also shoot still with a 5dmkiv all the time and I have been shooting off the back screen ( as I always shoot my stills at f1.0 or f1.2) and been getting 90% sharp. That's compared with 50% with the focus through the finder!
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I should have said 4.6k RAW on the BM. My bad. I'd expect the BM to be sharper in that regard. It's all up to you. I wouldn't want to suggest you doing anything that gets in the way of your tests. If I bought a 4.6 BM I'd shoot it in 4.6k. I have a BMPC and am very interested in the C200. Thanks for responding to my post.
 
I've turned on the ursa, the menu is so easy compared to the canon!
I can shoot uncompressed windowed 4K on the ursa- wouldn't this be best to compare? Or best to compare with the ursa 4.6k to show its advantage?

I will test with 25fps (as this is what my editor asks for) and 50 and 120.
 
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One thing I am sure about, what ISO do I use? The ursa will be 800, but what is canons ideal- or shall I use 800 for the comparison.
Then, about exposure- will I just get the two historgrams looking as close as possible? I don't want to a multi exposure type test- I want as simple as poss.

Paul
 
I’m glad to have found this thread as I have been debating about the same two cameras (actually the Varicam LT is in the mix as well but at twice the entry price). In all fairness, I did purchase/received the UMP the week it was released but I returned it due to FPN but I want to like it; I’ve read there have been some updates / improvements to the issues and a new blackshading calibration function to help prevent it so I’m willing to give it one more shot...but that C200 though.

It seems between the two it boils down to the colors/codecs of the UMP vs the ISO and autofocus of the Canon...this of course is provided the UMP is operating at 100%. And that is a really tough choice to make. The UMP brings some other possibilities with it in the form of the new on-board SSD recorder and lens mounts too BUT again, what about the reliability and having to stay at 400-800 ISO?

Very tough choices these days. If money were no object I’d just get the Amira and “call it a day” for the next 4 years or so :)
 
paulrossjones said:
Can you fill me in- i don't know much about the canon. i was assuming the raw is as is- no flat profiles needed?
im only interested in raw.
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When you shoot RAW, you need to "develop" it and at that stage you choose which profile you'd like; from the super flat 15-stop C-Log 2, to a punchy rec709 WideDR. That's if you use Canon's software to debayer; if you use Resolve, only they know how they're reading the RAW file...

By the way I don't think the Ursa is cheaper when you add up the cost of rigging.

The UMP is $6k for the body. If you match what the C200 comes with in the box, we're talking $7,500 for the body and EVF which exactly matches the C200, but you need to buy the shoulder kit* to mount that EVF, which is another $400. If you want to use the camera for a couple of hours on battery power (as the battery that comes with the C200 does), you need a battery plate, V-Mount/AB batteries and a charger; none come with the body, so add on $500 for that (unless you go to the Chinese ebay shops). If you want a top handle, one comes with the C200, but is extra with the UMP (or with the shoulder kit). Both use the same media, so that's a wash.

So you're talking roughly $8,400 to match what comes with the $7,500 C200.

*BTW I used to own the original UM, between the large batteries, uncomfortable handle, weight and size; I found it to be near impossible for handholding longer than 45m-1 hour. Shoulder mounting was the only way I thought it was healthy to work, so I'd consider the shoulder kit to be essential. Maybe someone who eats more wheaties than me might differ in opinion...
 
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mraaron895 said:
I would sell my C300 MKII and buy an Alexa Classic. But after successfully using the AF on so many paid jobs I would not be able to function as efficiently without it.
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have you used an alexa classic? i know it shoots lovely footage, but the biggest complaint i have heard (shooting stills along with film crews for years) is the size and weight. its 7.7 kgs (with evf and handle), and the batteries don't last long. So with a 1.5kg lens, a 1 kg battery and a couple of extras you are lugging overo 10 kgs...
that is fine with a crew that takes it off your shoulders after every take, but if you want to shoot something by yourself, good luck.

paul
 
paulrossjones said:
have you used an alexa classic? i know it shoots lovely footage, but the biggest complaint i have heard (shooting stills along with film crews for years) is the size and weight. its 7.7 kgs (with evf and handle), and the batteries don't last long. So with a 1.5kg lens, a 1 kg battery and a couple of extras you are lugging overo 10 kgs...
that is fine with a crew that takes it off your shoulders after every take, but if you want to shoot something by yourself, good luck.

paul
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Arri cameras make. Eatiful pictures but are such power hogs. The big negative with an amira besides cost of kit is the amount of batteries that need to hauled around with the camera to make it useful over the course of a day.
 
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