Steve Kahn
Well-known member
Ha! I'd lend you my HV30 as well if I still had it. God, how I don't miss the days of miniDV.
"A Verse Before Dying" - AF-100 Western Short
- Thread starter Stephen Mick
- Start date
Ha! I'd lend you my HV30 as well if I still had it. God, how I don't miss the days of miniDV.
Martti Ekstrand
Veteran
Do they have to be NTSC tapes or can you make do with PAL ones? They are bit moldy like a old french cheeze.
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
Post-Production Land (Notes From the Color Room)
Post-Production Land (Notes From the Color Room)
Notes From the Color Room
Sorry for having gone quiet over the last few days. We wrapped the offline edit late, late Thursday night, then I hopped on a plane for Minneapolis Friday morning. Friday night, Saturday and Sunday were spent in a darkened telecine room with colorist Oscar Oboza. After we wrapped up late last night, I asked Oscar to put down a few thoughts regarding his experiences working with the footage. Here's what he had to say…
His overall impressions were overwhelmingly positive. He didn't feel limited at all in terms of creating the "look" we wanted in Baselight. He was simply able to work with the footage just as he works with any other footage.
Being used to seeing so much 5DII footage in his suite lately, he certainly saw similarities between the AF-100 and the Canon footage in terms of curve response and falloff. What was fairly surprising was that the AF-100 holds detail in the higher end of the exposure range surprisingly well. We were able to pull back some cloud detail that would have been completely lost with the DSLRs. Based on what we saw, I'd say that the AF-100 is roughly a stop to maybe a stop-and-a-half more sensitive than the Canons, and primarily in the upper range of exposure. The noise present in the lower levels feels comparable between the two cameras, and Oscar and I both felt that, for best results with the AF-100, it's better to be slightly over-exposed than under-exposed.
Skin tones felt consistent and natural, in the context of the look we were going for. Timur's palette gave us plenty of room to "correct" the skin tones without introducing any artifacts, noise or banding. There was a hint of a slight magenta bias in both whites and skin tones, but this could have been camera setup.
In terms of overall latitude, the AF-100 performs very, very well, especially at the price point. Isolation tools certainly need to be used with care. This is 4:2:0 footage after all, and color-correction mattes can get "chunky" if you work with a heavy hand.
We made it a point to kick, punch and push around the footage in the "dream sequence," and never once did we have to stop ourselves our pull back because of the limitations of the raw footage. Like I said, we simply decided on the more aggressive, high-contast look we wanted to differentiate the scene from the rest of the film. What we found surprising was that, while the sky predictably blew out, much of the fine detail in the grass, walls and flare elements was retained. Again, the footage wasn't limiting us in doing what we wanted.
And remember that I said we (Barry) shot some 16mm film?
Well, when we put up the 16mm film and pushed it around, we came to a conclusion very quickly. Film. Always. Wins. There's just more range, better detail in the shadows, and far less falloff and clipping than with digital footage (AF, DSLR, RED, etc.). Oscar felt that the AF-100 footage did offer very good curve control, but he and I both could see that film responds with much less "harshness" the harder you push it. With film, a basic contrast curve always gives you a better, more even result, and it's here that the subtleties of film quickly become apparent on screen.
So, what's the bottom line?
When I asked Oscar if he would say the footage is "broadcast quality," he didn't hesitate before saying "absolutely." Given an operator who knows what they're doing, the AF-100 can easily produce footage that passes the test with Oscar.
Post-Production Land (Notes From the Color Room)
Notes From the Color Room
Sorry for having gone quiet over the last few days. We wrapped the offline edit late, late Thursday night, then I hopped on a plane for Minneapolis Friday morning. Friday night, Saturday and Sunday were spent in a darkened telecine room with colorist Oscar Oboza. After we wrapped up late last night, I asked Oscar to put down a few thoughts regarding his experiences working with the footage. Here's what he had to say…
His overall impressions were overwhelmingly positive. He didn't feel limited at all in terms of creating the "look" we wanted in Baselight. He was simply able to work with the footage just as he works with any other footage.
Being used to seeing so much 5DII footage in his suite lately, he certainly saw similarities between the AF-100 and the Canon footage in terms of curve response and falloff. What was fairly surprising was that the AF-100 holds detail in the higher end of the exposure range surprisingly well. We were able to pull back some cloud detail that would have been completely lost with the DSLRs. Based on what we saw, I'd say that the AF-100 is roughly a stop to maybe a stop-and-a-half more sensitive than the Canons, and primarily in the upper range of exposure. The noise present in the lower levels feels comparable between the two cameras, and Oscar and I both felt that, for best results with the AF-100, it's better to be slightly over-exposed than under-exposed.
Skin tones felt consistent and natural, in the context of the look we were going for. Timur's palette gave us plenty of room to "correct" the skin tones without introducing any artifacts, noise or banding. There was a hint of a slight magenta bias in both whites and skin tones, but this could have been camera setup.
In terms of overall latitude, the AF-100 performs very, very well, especially at the price point. Isolation tools certainly need to be used with care. This is 4:2:0 footage after all, and color-correction mattes can get "chunky" if you work with a heavy hand.
We made it a point to kick, punch and push around the footage in the "dream sequence," and never once did we have to stop ourselves our pull back because of the limitations of the raw footage. Like I said, we simply decided on the more aggressive, high-contast look we wanted to differentiate the scene from the rest of the film. What we found surprising was that, while the sky predictably blew out, much of the fine detail in the grass, walls and flare elements was retained. Again, the footage wasn't limiting us in doing what we wanted.
And remember that I said we (Barry) shot some 16mm film?
Well, when we put up the 16mm film and pushed it around, we came to a conclusion very quickly. Film. Always. Wins. There's just more range, better detail in the shadows, and far less falloff and clipping than with digital footage (AF, DSLR, RED, etc.). Oscar felt that the AF-100 footage did offer very good curve control, but he and I both could see that film responds with much less "harshness" the harder you push it. With film, a basic contrast curve always gives you a better, more even result, and it's here that the subtleties of film quickly become apparent on screen.
So, what's the bottom line?
When I asked Oscar if he would say the footage is "broadcast quality," he didn't hesitate before saying "absolutely." Given an operator who knows what they're doing, the AF-100 can easily produce footage that passes the test with Oscar.
Petros Kolyvas
Well-known member
Thanks so much for continuing to spend time keeping us "in-the-loop." Can't wait to see the finished film-hopefully on a big screen at some point.
DVXuser viewing parties?
Last edited:
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
Color Corrected Samples
Color Corrected Samples
I wanted to share some of our work from this weekend with you guys. Like I said, I wish every one of you could have been there to see what Oscar and I saw in the telecine suite. The footage looked spectacular, and seeing it in that environment really lets it shine.
And so, onto a few frame grabs. Keep in mind, these are low-resolution grabs, and not meant in any way to indicate the sharpness the camera can deliver.
Shot A (The Saloon)
You may recall Timur and I having posted the lighting diagram for this shot last week. Below, on the left, you'll see the original camera image, and on the right, the color-corrected frame grab.
Color Corrected Samples
I wanted to share some of our work from this weekend with you guys. Like I said, I wish every one of you could have been there to see what Oscar and I saw in the telecine suite. The footage looked spectacular, and seeing it in that environment really lets it shine.
And so, onto a few frame grabs. Keep in mind, these are low-resolution grabs, and not meant in any way to indicate the sharpness the camera can deliver.
Shot A (The Saloon)
You may recall Timur and I having posted the lighting diagram for this shot last week. Below, on the left, you'll see the original camera image, and on the right, the color-corrected frame grab.
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
Shot B (The Town)
Again, you may have seen the basic lighting setup for the talent close-ups last week, but this is the classic "western wide" with two characters facing off.
Again, you may have seen the basic lighting setup for the talent close-ups last week, but this is the classic "western wide" with two characters facing off.
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
Shot C (Dream Sequence)
The shot below is from the film's "dream sequence," which we all used as a chance to be aggressive and push the camera (and footage) around. In this shot, we wanted to create a high-contrast look, with a splash of ghostly light on our talent.
The shot below is from the film's "dream sequence," which we all used as a chance to be aggressive and push the camera (and footage) around. In this shot, we wanted to create a high-contrast look, with a splash of ghostly light on our talent.
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
Shot D (Acolito With Horse)
If there was any question about the ability to pull detail out of AF-100 footage, I hope this quiets them as much as possible. This was a shot that we absolutely had to get, but time was growing short and light was running out. The subjects were backlit, and we didn't have time to move gear into position to provide fill.
If there was any question about the ability to pull detail out of AF-100 footage, I hope this quiets them as much as possible. This was a shot that we absolutely had to get, but time was growing short and light was running out. The subjects were backlit, and we didn't have time to move gear into position to provide fill.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Yup, this codec definitely is robust enough to go into the mids and do some nice adjustments.
heavyG
Underwater Giraffe Member
Beautiful! Glad to know that there is room to correct that "Had to get it in less than prime conditions" shot.
Derrick_SA
Veteran
Nice, thanks for the Before and After images!
- Derrick
- Derrick
heavyG
Underwater Giraffe Member
*a little nugget that may come in handy*
LoganMackay
Well-known member
Amazing!
Thanks Stephen and the rest. That final shot looks great and really shows some range.
Thanks Stephen and the rest. That final shot looks great and really shows some range.
Shot D (Acolito With Horse)
If there was any question about the ability to pull detail out of AF-100 footage, I hope this quiets them as much as possible. This was a shot that we absolutely had to get, but time was growing short and light was running out. The subjects were backlit, and we didn't have time to move gear into position to provide fill.
And I think this is actually one of the best looking shot I've seen from the stills and trailer. Sometimes less, is more.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Very impressive stuff!
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
I know these grabs are small, but did you lose some detail in the bartenders hair after CC?
Not that we could see in either the color room on in online.
Adam J McKay
Veteran
Agreed
Agreed
I agree. This is definitely a beauty.
How much of a difference do you think their would have been had you shot with a SDI recorder? Do you think it would have made the isolations a little easier to play with? And it may have been answered, but did you keep the files in the original codec through to finish or were they transcoded to something else?
Look forward to seeing the finished product. This thread has been a great insight into both the film and the camera. A+
Agreed
I agree. This is definitely a beauty.
How much of a difference do you think their would have been had you shot with a SDI recorder? Do you think it would have made the isolations a little easier to play with? And it may have been answered, but did you keep the files in the original codec through to finish or were they transcoded to something else?
Look forward to seeing the finished product. This thread has been a great insight into both the film and the camera. A+
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
To be perfectly honest, I don't think there would have been much at all gained from an external recorder. In my past experiences with the external recorders, the main benefit you see from them is in high-motion, high-detail scenes, which the AF-100 nailed with the on-board codec. And there's also the benefit of going from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 color, but that doesn't really seem to deliver much "room" in shadow detail, from what I've seen. Like Jan said, it's not a $5,000 Arri Alexa, and there are always going to be things that cameras costing three, four and ten times as much as the AF-100 can deliver that the AF-100 won't quite measure up to. But I've been more than happy with the quality of the images we were able to get from the AF-100, and I'm just as happy knowing that there are cameras like the EPIC and Alexa out there, if I feel like I need what they offer.
As far as workflow goes, we (obviously) recorded AVCCAM in-camera, then transcoded (via Log & Transfer) into ProResHQ for editing. These ProResHQ files were then provided directly to the colorist, who worked with them in Baselight before laying them off with color correction. The EDL from Final Cut was then re-assembled with the color-corrected clips, giving us our current "online" picture. We'll be doing audio work tomorrow and final finishing shortly thereafter before delivery.