"A Verse Before Dying" - AF-100 Western Short

Stephen Mick said:
"A Verse Before Dying" - Lighting Setup #1 - "The Saloon"


One of the key scenes in the short takes place in the saloon. As you can see from the lighting diagram below, DP Timur Civan used a combination of HMI fixtures and mirror and white boards to sculpt a look that felt authentic and not overly stylized. What follows is his description of the tools he used, along with frame grabs to show the results, which, of course, you'll see come to life in the final film.


From Timur Civan…

Seeing as the 1850's had little in the way of artificial lighting indoors, the saloon scene had to be lit by the "sun." I am a huge fan of the look of natural lighting and did my best to create a natural and logical lighting plan. Using my favorite tool in the world, the Mirror Board, we bounced the illumination of 1.2k and 4K HMIs into the windows and doors. The sun was on our side for this shoot, and it naturally poured into one part of the room and with some clever bouncing we created a "lit from the ground" approach. Taking after my favorite natural light effect, the shaft of light pouring into a dark room, the reflections give a soft, subtle under lit characteristic. We staged the actors on the edges of these pools of light, and I used a 1/4 Promist filter to help add a little softness to blacks and help flare the bold shafts of light for dramatic effect.

Diagram
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Still A - Wide Shot


Still B - From Behind Actor, Window with 1.2K HMI "Bounced" In


Still C - From Actor's POV Towards Bartender


Still D - ECU of Actor Holding Prop
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Where' s the love button ?
 
Thanks for the setup images and the explnation from Timur, you guys are real Teachers!!!

I have a question for Timur (or any other that knows the answer), why do you bounce the 1,2kw hmi on a mirror board? how does the light change by doing that? Is it to make the lighting source bigger maintaining the hardness of the source? I'm trying to learn more things about lighting and this is a great opportunity! thank you!
 
TheReverend said:
If you have a Mac, take the mov open it in MPEGStreamClip, and click file>save as... And choose mp4. It'll repack it into mp4 without altering the video/audio data.

I'm sure there is a program on pc that could do the same. Maybe even QuickTime pro.
Click to expand...

Yes or do it QT Pro....
Open the file in QT Pro>Export>Movie to MPEG-4>Options>Video-Pass Through:Audio>Pass Through>Save

I have stuff shot from RED, HVX200, Canon T2i and various other reels on a Thumb drive
that I use with a Western Digital HD media player, playing back on a 42" Samsung.
"Verse" has great dynamic range & sharpness. Can't wait to see the completed "film"......
 
On a mac you can just double click to play in QT. No need to rewrap. I just renamed the file.

Here is how the file info displays:

h264.png
 
olof said:
On a mac you can just double click to play in QT. No need to rewrap. I just renamed the file.

Here is how the file info displays:

h264.png
Click to expand...

Right, on the mac it'll play fine.

He's wanting to play the file on his PS3 which will not take MOV, only MP4. Renaming an MOV to MP4 even if the file has H264 and AAC, WILL NOT MAKE AN MP4 COMPLIANT FILE. It has to be rewrapped to conform to MP4 standards.
 
TheReverend said:
Right, on the mac it'll play fine.

He's wanting to play the file on his PS3 which will not take MOV, only MP4. Renaming an MOV to MP4 even if the file has H264 and AAC, WILL NOT MAKE AN MP4 COMPLIANT FILE. It has to be rewrapped to conform to MP4 standards.
Click to expand...

The Reverend speaks the truth and wise words. I will try this with QT pro, and let you know how it works with my PS3. This would be a wonderful revelation, Reverend, as it's a pain to go through Sorenson to re-encode, and even at High bitrate, it still ads another layer of compression. But in this case, adding the 2.40 aspect really allowed me to feel that cine look.
 
TheReverend said:
Right, on the mac it'll play fine.

He's wanting to play the file on his PS3 which will not take MOV, only MP4. Renaming an MOV to MP4 even if the file has H264 and AAC, WILL NOT MAKE AN MP4 COMPLIANT FILE. It has to be rewrapped to conform to MP4 standards.
Click to expand...

Yes you are correct sir....The PS3 and the WD TV media player will only play the re-wrapped .mp4 file.
The re-wrapping process takes seconds. Then you can delete the .mov file if you want.
And Yes the .mov plays perfect on my mac.
 
Thank you very much for filming this and sharing. This is the first time I pixel peeped. On a calibrated monitor and also 50" plasma. Trailer looks amazing. I like the fact that you considered showcasing what this cam can do for example the vest on scarface, tall grass, deep focus. All of that is wrapped in an interesting story telling that forced me to pause the footage and remember what I was supposed to look for from a technical standpoint. This only proves that the right tool in the right hands will deliver magic.
 
Razer thin DOF isn't used in big movies as often as you might assume with the current DOF craze right now.
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Exactly. I have no idea what people have in their minds with the ultra shallow DOF. Watch "Hollywood" movies and you will see how sharp they are, first of all, and how much deep focus is used. Television uses a lot of shallow DOF, maybe thats why many people have this shallow DOF thing in their brains.
 
ilauzirika said:
Thanks for the setup images and the explnation from Timur, you guys are real Teachers!!!

I have a question for Timur (or any other that knows the answer), why do you bounce the 1,2kw hmi on a mirror board? how does the light change by doing that? Is it to make the lighting source bigger maintaining the hardness of the source? I'm trying to learn more things about lighting and this is a great opportunity! thank you!
Click to expand...

The mirror board is easier to get that high then a 1.2k. Plus the Mirror board softens the light a bit, while maintaining the punch across distance.
 
Have I missed somewhere, description of lenses used on this trailer? Very curious about this, and what the aperture and ND setting might have been. I'm guessing the wide shot with the two hombres was a Panasonic/Lumix?

Also, I am really curious to know what my old Nikon manual lenses will do with this camera, since with the Letus/HVX they have such a natural, organic color and bokeh. Sometimes I wonder if cine lenses with pristine digital acquisition is almost too sharp.

Thanks again to those who put forth the effort to shoot, edit, and post this footage. I was considering doing the AF100 and then an F3, but maybe I don't need to go F3.
 
Billygoat said:
Have I missed somewhere, description of lenses used on this trailer? Very curious about this, and what the aperture and ND setting might have been. I'm guessing the wide shot with the two hombres was a Panasonic/Lumix?
Click to expand...
Complete details haven't been put out there yet. The helicopter shot was the Lumix 14-140. I think the deep/wide shot was the 18mm Compact Prime maybe? The shallow DOF OTS shot of the faceoff was the 50-300mm Nikon.

Sometimes I wonder if cine lenses with pristine digital acquisition is almost too sharp.
Click to expand...
Cine lenses come in all sorts of varieties. Most folks would probably say that the Zeiss deliver a sharper look, and the Cookes a softer look. Then there's different types of Zeiss (Compact, Ultra, and Master primes, plus Standard speeds and Super Speeds) and different types of Cookes (S3, S4, Panchro) and there's Angenieux and the new Fujinon, and there's Schneiders and Red Pro and UniqOptics and Illumina Technica and Panavision... you can't just lump cine glass into all one category, you have to evaluate each type of lens for its own look.

And, with that said, there are many shots in this film that are *softened* with pro-mist filters! Timur liked the look of, what was it -- a 1/4 black pro-mist? So there's diffusion in front of some of these shots too.

I was considering doing the AF100 and then an F3, but maybe I don't need to go F3.
Click to expand...
Me too. I now no longer see any reason to buy an F3. Might rent it when the occasion calls for it, but the AF100 delivered everything I wanted and needed, and it's cheap enough that buying makes sense.
 
The lenses used are amix of CP1 PL lenses, a Nikon 50-300 AIS, and the Helicopter shot was with the 14-140 LUMIX.
 
TimurCivan said:
The mirror board is easier to get that high then a 1.2k. Plus the Mirror board softens the light a bit, while maintaining the punch across distance.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info! Just another question.....When you refer to a mirror board, are you referring to an actual mirror pasted onto a frame with a spud or to a silver mirror board? Because when I was working as a trainee electrician in a big production we had some with a mirror pasted onto a frame and then the silver ones. I guess you are talking about the silver mirror frame when you say it softens the light a bit...

Anyway...sorry for all this basic questions but It is a great opportunity for me and maybe others to learn ;) and thank you again!
 
TheReverend said:
If you have a Mac, take the mov open it in MPEGStreamClip, and click file>save as... And choose mp4. It'll repack it into mp4 without altering the video/audio data.

I'm sure there is a program on pc that could do the same. Maybe even QuickTime pro.
Click to expand...

Streamclip works in Windows, too.

Regarding the DoF- the fact that it's NOT 5D shallow is precisely... the... point!!!
It's not a 5D, and nobody should expect it to look like one- image-wise, DoF-wise, moire-wise, skew-wise or otherwise.

Timur- BRILLIANT use of naturalistic, period lighting technique- really, really well done, and perfect motivation for the use of it.
Thanks for the lighting chart guys!
 
If you want to match the 5D's look, you would have to open up the iris by a couple of stops. You can get that look if you want it.
 
WOWSER! Lights out! Stupendous! (I have NEVER used that ridiculous word in my life.....until now)
Here's why: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...etti-Western&p=2182977&viewfull=1#post2182977

I was considering doing the AF100 and then an F3, but maybe I don't need to go F3.
Click to expand...
Me too. I now no longer see any reason to buy an F3. Might rent it when the occasion calls for it, but the AF100 delivered everything I wanted and needed, and it's cheap enough that buying makes sense.
Click to expand...
Me THREE! :) So....let's review for a second: The F3 is cutting into the future EPIC/EPIC lite/Red One....the blood is everywhere....just look on many forums. (I know Red will be fine...the F3 won't "kill" them....but it's put some questions about investment and budgets into people mind.) AS OF RIGHT NOW....the AF100 has stopped my "longing eyes" from wandering to the F3. (I KNOW the F3 will produce a better image...I've seen the footy....I get it....but FOR ME....the difference isn't enough to justify the cost difference.) I know 4:4:4 color will rock....but....after seeing this footy. I'm re-thinking 4:2:2 color! (I know there's more room when color correcting...etc...etc..) I'm really not sure anymore....I think I just joined the "Ninja" wannabes....1K...fine. 3K...from what I see here?....I dunno....we'll see.

But...what I see here looks like everything that Red "left behind" with their never-ending upgrades on their product and their cost. For me....it's over. No more wandering....no more wishing....it's here...it's now. Its the AF100. Looks like I'm going to have to save some pennies for a minute....sell some old equipment....but at 1/4 the cost of an F3 and 1/6 the cost of a Red (body only)....it won't be long before I get to join the AF100 club.

Geez...what a relief....what a journey.....that just means more energy going where it needs to be: Time to become a master "Story-Teller".

Thanks Barry. I see what you see....I'd have to be blind to miss it! :)
 
actually. the AF100 is more easily able to get shallow DOF in broad daylight than the 5D. Even at ISO 100, i find in daylight, im usually stopped down to f16. The AF100 with the built in ND @ ISO 200, can be more open to a F4 or F5.6 giving you the shallow DOF you are looking for. The shot of the rider on the horse is the perfect example. the back ground is perfectly soft.
 
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