A New Camera!

Jordan Scott Price

Jordan Scott Price

Veteran
28k_RED_CAMERA.png



I don't know about you, but I am already saving up for that big one there. :)
 
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And it will only cost $100,000!

And be released in 2015.

I mean 2016.

I mean December 2016.

I mean Spring 2018.


I mean the product pulled for now.
 
It's funny. Well not funny, it's impressive and doesn't make sense to me. In almost every sensor chart (almost) I see, red epic and scarlet are sensor size standards. It's clear by now that RED is more of a standard setter (innovator) than a production line, but to set standards off products that haven't come out. That's pretty influential. Irrespective of how many ppl say RED isn't working, and irrespective of how many people aren't satisfied with scarlet's delay, and aside from ppl who don't like it based on preference, and most importantly, irrespective of the fans.... they've bloody done it. They are a standard. Hats off.
 
True, but those enormous (6k+) sensor sizes aren't even implemented yet. Just imagine the cooling requirements for the processors and sensor to manage 28k writing in-camera - it would take a living room full of tech. It's just not possible - nor really plausible - yet.
 
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What's the point?

Mind you I'm not an expert of these things as much as you guys (so feel free to correct me), but what does extra resolution actually do?

I read an article in the In Camera Kodak Magazine that talked about resolutions. From what I remember was that they did a test. They went to an Imax screen and brought in seasoned DoPs. They first showed one big black square next to a big white square. Then they showed two white squares and two black squares (each representing a pixel), they increased this to a checkerboard pattern. Each time they increased the resolution they took note of it. The idea was to see where they found it to be a perfect flowing grey everywhere. Essentially when the eye recognizes that there aren't any pixels.

What they discovered was that the 'perfect' resolution, where your eye doesn't need anything more, is just above HD 1080, and just below 4k. So in essence, 4k should be more than enough, even if you need to blow things up a bit.

So is shooting at 28k really necessary?

It reminds me of Radios. They only need something like 3 diodes to work properly (something like that). But when it was a new technology they used to put in up to 9 diodes as a selling point, making people think it works better, when it doesn't.
 
From the TV broadcast perspective, I think we will be on 1080 panels for quite some time for home viewing. Networks wont adopt ad hoc standards like 4k or 5k, because relatively speaking the content is and will be a very small percentage if content. I think NHK in Japan are the ones to watch. They are looking to 8k broadcasts by 2022 or something around then. Still a long way off. But being a network who also engineers cameras, and being who they are, they also have a lot of sway with the large manufacturers thinking. And I guarantee they dont care what RED is doing.
 
28000x9334? What the heck kind of crazy ultra-widescreen is that? :D

jscottprice said:
True, but those enormous (6k+) sensor sizes aren't even implemented yet. Just imagine the cooling requirements for the processors and sensor to manage 28k writing in-camera - it would take a living room full of tech. It's just not possible - nor really plausible - yet.
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Well, here's the reverse of that idea--

http://www.projectiondesign.com/?CatID=1839

This is a projector where all the cooling and processing is done remotely, and a "liquid light guide" runs to the projection optics up to 100 feet away. Switch that around, and you've got a studio camera setup, at least... not particularly mobile, of course... ;)
 
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Noel Evans said:
From the TV broadcast perspective, I think we will be on 1080 panels for quite some time for home viewing.
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Spot on. In the US there are plenty of broadcasters that still haven't upgraded to HD due to the high cost of upgrading facilities. I doubt that the broadcasters will be in a hurry to upgrade again anytime soon.
 
But you have to remember, RED is languishing in it's problems in delivering anything it announced long, long ago.
It's easy to announce MASSIVE RESOLUTION to get your name back in the news, but if I can't buy one and hold it in my hands, it's just more fluff.

RED. Releases Extremely Dubious.
 
Yea.

I probably should have made it clearer that I started this thread to make fun of such a beastly but ultimately intangible resolution from one camera.

I like that they are forward-thinking, but that 28k pushes the boundaries of even the most eager ambitions and imaginations.

When I was looking up something about RED on Wikipedia, I found that sensor size png as their token image, and I laughed out loud. At first, I thought it was a joke. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. It's still funny.
 
I don't think this is a new announcement, is it? The Epic 617 has been in their roadmap for quite some time as something they'd get to eventually. I don't think they even tried to guess about it.

That being said, there have been a couple of people (who do specialist photography/cinematography) that have been interested in purchasing them and inquired about pre-orders. So it isn't a camera without a purpose or without an audience...it's just got a very narrow purpose and a small audience.

Regarding resolution...keep in mind RED uses their DSMC system. In other words, people can expect to pull high resolution stills from the stream that are suitable for print in a variety of formats. This requires high resolution - far higher than 1080p.

So far, I think this has been done a couple of times with RED ONE, but a couple of stills photographers have already shot with EPIC test cameras. I'm not sure how it will all work, but capturing 5K images at up to 120fps could have pretty impressive results in some venues - sports, fashion, wildlife, event event and wedding work. Hard to miss "the moment" that way. Of course, I've never seen any prints from Epic, or even high resolution TIFFs. And I've definitely never been able to compare prints against other professional crop, FF, or MF cameras.

Interesting times ahead...

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It should also be noted that there are cameras out there now with this sort of capability. Some 120 film cameras are built to shoot "6x17" (hence the name 617) which is a 3:1 aspect ratio and has physical dimensions of ~56mm × ~168mm. So the RED 617 would be a digital equivalent of this type of specialist photography camera.
 
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Pookie said:
But you have to remember, RED is languishing in it's problems in delivering anything it announced long, long ago.
It's easy to announce MASSIVE RESOLUTION to get your name back in the news, but if I can't buy one and hold it in my hands, it's just more fluff.

RED. Releases Extremely Dubious.
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Spot on.
 
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