F5: A few questions...

Fun predicament I'm in. I can buy an R5 for my F55 to record RAW and blow ~$8000 on R5, cards, reader, etc...

OR I can just buy a BMC 4k that shoots RAW for $4000.. and end up with A/B cam while I'm at it.

At the end of July Sony released v1.2 firmware (free of course) which includes SR Codec 10-bit 444 (in HD) and so far I'm impressed with XAVC 10-bit 422 (240Mbps) but need to do some tests on SR Codec and see if it offers any significant different or improvements. (maybe I can live without RAW for now)
 
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starcentral said:
Ooops sorry Derek I posted the wrong link, this is the one I was reading yesterday but maybe Duke referred to a different one: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...-1-999&p=1986349466&viewfull=1#post1986349466

I'm in touch with Michael on frequent basis, we don't live too far apart and he's gaff'd for me on several projects. Secretly I'm hoping he jumps on an F5 or even F55 if he can stretch it and we can offer ourselves as a F55 duo :happy:
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Thanks - just read it (and Duke.M posted too).

I'd try and use Jedi mind tricks on Michael... just make you get the message right and he doesn't end up with an EX1, LOL.

I think it 'horses for courses' really. I'm sure most would prefer the Alexa if given a choice (ie - if you could get one for $25K all in, Sony and Red would be in trouble, IMO).

Personally, once I leave my current position (with access to an Epic), I'll probably end up with a Dragon if I purchase or an Alexa if I rent (it depends what my clients are looking for next year).
 
Derek Chingwell said:
Not seen the Cinematography one - that's interesting!
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The cinematography thread is interesting! For me, the C500 and F65 look the worst in that test but I realize its just a test and could be graded differently.

The frames below by "an expert senior colorist" I don't like at all. Too much contrast for my liking on most of the frames, the F55/F65 look the best in that set.
 
starcentral said:
Fun predicament I'm in. I can buy an R5 for my F55 to record RAW and blow ~$8000 on R5, cards, reader, etc...

OR I can just buy a BMC 4k that shoots RAW for $4000.. and end up with A/B cam while I'm at it.

At the end of July Sony released v1.2 firmware (free of course) which includes SR Codec 10-bit 444 (in HD) and so far I'm impressed with XAVC 10-bit 422 (240Mbps) but need to do some tests on SR Codec and see if it offers any significant different or improvements.
Click to expand...

BMC 4K Bcam makes most sense... and also would be easy to sell on if you don't like it.

Maybe the 4K BMC would be Michael's best bet... as he could get some good lenses and a decent support package - and still have change left over.
 
starcentral said:
The cinematography thread is interesting! For me, the C500 and F65 look the worst in that test but I realize its just a test and could be graded differently.

The frames below by "an expert senior colorist" I don't like at all. Too much contrast for my liking on most of the frames, the F55/F65 look the best in that set.
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Pretty much agree. It shows how everything (colour/tonal range etc) is really subjective. Generally, I wish the 'interweb' would see tests as just that - but they end up being quoted as gospel/fact.
 
Derek Chingwell said:
BMC 4K Bcam makes most sense... and also would be easy to sell on if you don't like it.

Maybe the 4K BMC would be Michael's best bet... as he could get some good lenses and a decent support package - and still have change left over.
Click to expand...

I keep trying to rent my F55 to Michael for cheap, but like me, he wants to own his own camera and I totally understand that. :happy:


Derek Chingwell said:
I think it 'horses for courses' really. I'm sure most would prefer the Alexa if given a choice (ie - if you could get one for $25K all in, Sony and Red would be in trouble, IMO).

Personally, once I leave my current position (with access to an Epic), I'll probably end up with a Dragon if I purchase or an Alexa if I rent (it depends what my clients are looking for next year).
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I think used Alexa's will be around $30k, but that's if you can find one. If that price is correct then its a tough decision between Alexa and F55 (or possibly even Alexa and F5). I'm still convinced Alexa is doing extra highlight management on-board the camera before recording to log. This is why I think ARRI digital cams have been able to really produce "film like" images without having to record the image with extremely high bit-depths and in linear gamma like RED (and now the F5/F55 with R5) - all at the expense of data rates nearly 5 times higher than ProRes 422 for example.

Where is that highlights RED F55 Alexa comparison video again?
 
starcentral said:
OR I can just buy a BMC 4k that shoots RAW for $4000.. and end up with A/B cam while I'm at it.

At the end of July Sony released v1.2 firmware (free of course) which includes SR Codec 10-bit 444 (in HD) and so far I'm impressed with XAVC 10-bit 422 (240Mbps) but need to do some tests on SR Codec and see if it offers any significant different or improvements. (maybe I can live without RAW for now)
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The Blackmagic 4K is going to be a lot like the original Red One in terms of resolution and latitude, with the bonus of global shutter. Which is to say, the Red One was 320 or 500 ASA, depending on what you were shooting, and the latitude while impressive for the time, especially with the raw, has been def superseded by the 55 by 3-4 stops.

In other words, do it if you really feel the need to trade latitude for resolution.

You have the better camera already. Go get the raw recorder in a year or two.

BTW, I shot a 4 camera concert with 3 F55s last weekend. Did the 55s in SR-Lite. It's a lot cleaner than XAVC. The 4th camera was an Alexa, and the 55s were cleaner.
 
I've been reading the posts, still need to Decode what's best for me.
I should have the money by Christmas time or at least a great chunk of it. Depending on the new job I got.
The f5 is still at the top of my list.

The sxs pro+ cards, with the f5 at the highway/ best quality, how many minutes will I get? How many will I need? Ate 4 cards a good amount?

And had anyone compared the new Sony batteries to standard v mount batteries? It says it lasts longer. But how would it compare to 160wh batteries at almost the same price? I believe the Sony ones are 75wh. Don't know if it's all that worth it.
 
The 128 pro+ cards are $1500 each, 1 hour of 60p, 20 minutes of 180p, 2.5 hours of 24p...

I'm too cheap to get the Olivines so using my steadicam IDX v-mounts good for several hours.

Nate has the Olivines so he can tell you more about the differences but in general divide the battery wh by 24 and you'll get how many hours approximately you will get. (without powering other accessories)
 
I didn't notice there was a 128gb card. I was referring to the 64gb one, so that's just half of what you said. Not bad. 4 cards should be good.

As for the batteries, the one I've been had my eye on, I know will last long as it's 160wh, but don't know if the Sony ones will last longer or not.
 
Sony ones are around 90wH (if I do the math 7.5 amp hours X 12 volts = 90wH) so although they will charge faster, last through many more life cycles, the 160wH batteries you are looking at will last quite a bit longer. But... the longer lasting batteries you buy will also require longer charge times. So you might want 2 batteries fully charged at any time with at least 2 (or more) batteries being charged at time.
 
Not sure if you have addressed this but just a cautionary note... If you are getting 160watt hour batteries, make sure you aren't going to be doing a lot of air travel. There are very specific and known limits by the airlines about which batteries can go on an airplane and which cannot. 160 watt hour batts are probably not going to be allowed. You can bring the typical 90wh lithium ion batteries and the newer 120wh high current batteries but anything larger, I think is a no go. You also have to carry on most batteries and have the contacts covered and separated. Some airlines don't want batteries stowed but only as carry ons.
 
I'll have to read up more on the batteries allowed on airlines, but from what I just read quickly, it states that for large batteries, the maximum wh allowed is 300. Not sure if it's checked in our carry on. Bit I'll look into that later. Not something to be concerned about now.
 
Andrew Stone;1986351196 Some airlines don't want batteries stowed but only as carry ons.[/QUOTE said:
DOT says one large 160 <25 grams lithium (only installed in a device) allowed in the hold. 2 additional large batteries can be carried on as spares.
Unlimited smaller (<8 grams) allowed as carry ons. That's probably 90Wh or smaller. All should be taped or put in separate containers.

I can't imagine any 300 Wh lithium would be under the 25g limit, but who knows.

Interestingly, Anton Bauer currently rates their 160's at 183Wh and says they're not eligible for air travel at all.
All the manufacturers are cagey about how many grams of lithium are actually in their products. Trade secret, maybe?

I typically install one HCX on the bagged camera, another next to it in the camera bag (carried on) and 4-6 90's in another carry on bag.
I wouldn't want to be on an international flight with a bunch or large lithiums in the hold, no matter if they're installed or loose. I won't put them there.
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Yes John, I checked up shortly after I made the post and saw that 160wh Lithiums can be carried on as long as one is attached to the camera and 2 are carried on. 300wh batts are FORBIDDEN. Day playing Steadicam ops going to other cities are faced with this continually. The general rule is to try and stick to 90s, the HC (High Currents) or the HCXs which are around 130wh. Keep them separated and if you are doing your due dilligence have the contacts covered with gaff tape. Some airlines take exception to them being stowed. Best route is to do a carry on with batts and you are pretty much safe.

The rules with the airlines have changed a few times over the past decade so it is good to check before you set sail.

160wh Lithiums right now seems to be the threshold. Any higher and probably won't get on.
 
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