I have never heard of the Zoom H4n before. It seems to be made more to record music etc. But a recorder is a recorder. How people use it to record dialog or interviews? Do they use the built in mic and just have the recorder off frame or do they plug in a shotgun mic and boom and use the Zoom as a recorder only?
7D's Audio Capabilities
- Thread starter Jean Dantes
- Start date
Eddy Robinson
Well-known member
Both. You can mount it on a stand, for example, and plug a boom and a lavalier into it - it'll record up to 4 channels simultaneously. I think it's the best all-round recorder in its price range. Of course, you can spend considerably more for pro gear, up to about $10k for the top of the line pro stuff. The Zoom is geared at music but is solid and flexible enough to be useful for film work.
J Davis
Veteran
Thanks!
This was a one man band scenario BTW. Just me, her, the morning sun, no screens or bounceboards, just cam, tripod, NTG2, MM1, zoomH4
I did tests of 1 hour duration with the GH1 and the zoom H4 for audio sync. Pulldown has nothing to do with audio. The audio on 24p = audio on 30p. I feel the error is in the H4 and if you have someone talking it becomes noticeably out of sync after about 1 minute. First thing I will be doing when I have a 7D is an audio sync test.
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I think for dialog in drama recording directly with it may not be the best option. The mics in it are not shotguns. Hanging it from a boom would be pretty awkward. In that case, using it as a recorder only is the best I think.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Not to derail the thread - but it's a bit more complicated than that for me - as the bulk of my work is out of town, on the road, etc... so adding a member to the crew increases costs significantly for the clients before we even talk about dayrates for the added sound person (airfare, hotel, food, expenses) - unless we try to pick someone up in each city, which has its own logistical issues for me.
And I totally agree - which is why I would record on the Zoom, and only jack the zoom into the camera for reference to make syncing easier. I was only saying that I hope that at some point the manufacturers of these cameras will give us something that is useable in terms of audio.
Which is exactly what I've been using (HPX170 right now) - but like I said...the images I'm starting to see now are becoming too good to ignore - so I'm weighing the pros and cons.
J Davis
Veteran
I once jacked the out of the zoom H4 into the mic in on the GH1. Figured I would get better audio to sync with instead of the on camera mic.
What I didn't realize is that there was some kind of power being sent out by the camera that totally fried the audio on the Zoom. Never did it again.
What I didn't realize is that there was some kind of power being sent out by the camera that totally fried the audio on the Zoom. Never did it again.
J Davis
Veteran
That would depend on how far the talent is from the lens. At least the on camera mic in the 7D is pointed forwards.
The on cam mic for the GH1 is pointed vertically upwards, in the direction of the camerman's nostrils. But it does move because it is part of the flash pop up after which the mic points backwards to the cameraman's throat. Great if you happen to want heavy breathing during a porn scene. Other than that it is one dumb ass design. Almost as bad as having an internal mirror.
Sorry I'm so sarcastic right now ... crappy day at the ad agency.
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Luis Caffesse
Admin
Woah.
Hadn't heard that before - doesn't seem to make much sense.... of course you may have just scared me off from testing it for myself.
Is there another kind?
Peter J. DeCrescenzo
Veteran
Ozpeter has posted about the GH1 mic input "plug-in power" undocumented feature and how to use it; see:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=177740
Eddy Robinson
Well-known member
Actually, this is not true. Pulldown and pullup are major issues for audio-for-film because of the way SMPTE frames are counted in drop frame timecode. This is one reason for the continued popularity of Pro Tools - support for this is built in at the hardware level which is a considerable time saver in many cases. Really, it's quite a big deal and it's easy to screw up.
That's possible, but would indicate disturbing amounts of jitter. A simple test which I encourage you to perform is to record several minutes of a pure tone (sine, saw or square wave) from your computer into the zoom, and then bring the resulting file back into the computer, which will enable you to precisely map frequency drift over time. I can help you with this if you like.
http://dansdata.blogsome.com/category/music/ You may find this of interest, by the way
Eddy Robinson
Well-known member
No, you could just put it on a stand for ambient recording of the stereo soundifeld from the side of the set. You would run the boom into one of the XLR inputs and have one left over for lavaliers, slate mic or whatever.
J Davis
Veteran
I worded my example in reference to the GH1 vs zoom H4 only. The slippage error on the audio file is the same when I matched it to the 1080p prores file before pulldown and after pulldown.
THe test I used on the GH1 vs Zoom H4 was with a clap off a slate at the start of the clip and the end of the clip. At the same time I was testing the SDHC card, 1 hour take. I'll prob use the same method when the 7D arrives, its a simple test I know but easy and effective, thanks for the offer tho.
Canon 7d sound problems
Canon 7d sound problems
I'm new to the forum and only had time to read the first page of responses, because I've spent days and days trying to get any kind of decent sound out of the the 7d and filming of my short film project starts in ten days, on location. My 7d is making a clickity sound, with or without any mic or board plugged into the mic input. I've been using a Shure wireless lav mic, running that into an Akai 12 track digital recorder, out of that into the camera, and using a new Asus high def monitor. So far, nothing but ground loop hum, (bought a Hum X today, not much help), then when I tried dropping everything and just listening to the camera alone, there is a problem. Back to the store with it tomorrow, in case I got a dud. So glad to have found this thread, but I may have to shoot this project on a Sony DV, since one of the actors won't be available again for another six months. Though, I am heartened to read about the Zoom H4N and the Edirol, I'm pretty good at syncing sound to video ;o) 30 plus years as a musician or maybe just a lucky sense of timing. Thanks all...will read more tomorrow.
Canon 7d sound problems
I'm new to the forum and only had time to read the first page of responses, because I've spent days and days trying to get any kind of decent sound out of the the 7d and filming of my short film project starts in ten days, on location. My 7d is making a clickity sound, with or without any mic or board plugged into the mic input. I've been using a Shure wireless lav mic, running that into an Akai 12 track digital recorder, out of that into the camera, and using a new Asus high def monitor. So far, nothing but ground loop hum, (bought a Hum X today, not much help), then when I tried dropping everything and just listening to the camera alone, there is a problem. Back to the store with it tomorrow, in case I got a dud. So glad to have found this thread, but I may have to shoot this project on a Sony DV, since one of the actors won't be available again for another six months. Though, I am heartened to read about the Zoom H4N and the Edirol, I'm pretty good at syncing sound to video ;o) 30 plus years as a musician or maybe just a lucky sense of timing. Thanks all...will read more tomorrow.