7D vs GH1 comparison video please?

The video was very impressive indeed. What disappoints me is the fact that this guy did a great piece and the entire focus has been on the camera instead of the little story he told. That is a world I don't want to get involved with myself. So I will just put out my stuff as is and not discuss what brush I used to paint my picture.
 
What I like about the VDSLRs is the flexibility and ease of use in filming they give you, especially if you are a photographer as well and are used to the camera form factor.
 
Whats great about the GH1 cannot be appreciated by comparing footage because the 7D has a much better codec.

Its the fact that you don't have to deal with an internal mirror so you can use PL mount cine's or inexpensive quality canon FD lenses which the 7D can't. Its the fact that you can get better res for monitoring off your GH1's LCD than the 7D can give with HDMI out (480p), you have an electronic viewfinder that can show you an image adjusted by ISO (the 7D has no elec. view finder) very useful in some situations, and you can bend the LCD in anyway you want instead of your neck AND its cheaper.

Other than that they are the same camera and 7 months from now will most likely have the same resale value.
 
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J Davis said:
Whats great about the GH1 cannot be appreciated by comparing footage because the 7D has a much better codec.

Its the fact that you don't have to deal with an internal mirror so you can use PL mount cine's or inexpensive quality canon FD lenses which the 7D can't. Its the fact that you can get better res for monitoring off your GH1's LCD than the 7D can give with HDMI out (480p), you have an electronic viewfinder that can show you an image adjusted by ISO (the 7D has no elec. view finder) very useful in some situations, and you can bend the LCD in anyway you want instead of your neck AND its cheaper.

Other than that they are the same camera and 7 months from now will most likely have the same resale value.
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You got some good points there.
 
I am about to pick one of these cameras up and I think I am going to go for the 7D simply because the codec on the GH1 is kaka. I think if the codecs were equal the GH1 might shine ahead a bit with the panny motion characteristics but it's useless with the 17 mbit avchd and everyone knows it. You have to never move the camera to have quality shots. Where as in the 7d video you just posted http://vimeo.com/groups/26655/videos/6487566 the jello is minimal even when the camera is on a roller coaster. GH1 gets the same jello I think, so the codec wins right now on the 7D. Less of a handicap, better images.
 
I have yet to see a filmic image from the 7D. Canon cameras work very well for stuff like weddings but it does not cut it as a film camera, it screams video even at native 24p.

I am no brand man, I have owned most of them at some point, Canon, Panasonic, JVC and Nikon. At the moment, GH1 is the tool for me, nothing beats it for my needs.
 
Amen to that brother.

One other advantage. Today I went to a football game to get footage, and the stadium has a rule that "no professional cameras with detachable lenses" can be used. The ushers took a look at my GH1 and let in my "nonprofessional" camera that will give professional results.

I have found that the same thing works when I was videoing an person who freezes with with ordinary video gear, the GH1 was so unintimidating that I got the story with no trouble.

Soroush Shahrokni said:
I have yet to see a filmic image from the 7D. Canon cameras work very well for stuff like weddings but it does not cut it as a film camera, it screams video even at native 24p.

I am no brand man, I have owned most of them at some point, Canon, Panasonic, JVC and Nikon. At the moment, GH1 is the tool for me, nothing beats it for my needs.
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philiplipetz said:
Amen to that brother.

One other advantage. Today I went to a football game to get footage, and the stadium has a rule that "no professional cameras with detachable lenses" can be used. The ushers took a look at my GH1 and let in my "nonprofessional" camera that will give professional results.
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LOL, fantastic. Yeah, this little beast is so stealth while it captures cinematic footge! :D
 
Blackout said:
GH1 might shine ahead a bit with the panny motion characteristics but it's useless with the 17 mbit avchd and everyone knows it.
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""Everyone knows it""

As in "All"! Really...... You state this as "Fact", what is really just your opinion.


Is this useless? http://vimeo.com/6942561

So essentially this "Useless" ( GH1 ) as you so factually stated, has performed in a completely improbable manner; that it could have shot this A class looking project ( of course the "A" class is my opinion ). I will tell you what is "fact". That your so called " Fact" is your opinion and nothing more than that!


Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
 
If it's the video look you are after and you own a couple of nice Canon L glasses, then by all means get the 7D or better yet the 5D (firmware upgrade on it's way), or wait for the 1D. But if you are looking for a filmic image, then honestly, I had a more "filmic" results even with my JVC HD100 and its 1/3" censor. For filmic results, nothing beats the GH1, IMO.
 
Ok, let me rephrase Michael... what I meant is that all the advanced features in the world don't mean much if the codec easily breaks up, and pretty much everyone who owns the camera is in consensus that the codec IS a problem, as can be read in almost every other post on this forum, vimeo, store review sections.. ect. So I wasn't trying to belittle the owners of this camera with the term 'useless', I don't think the camera is useless, what I meant was I think having a great image section with crappy compression that doesn't let you move the camera is useless. I am considering buying it right now, but I think the image it could capture is greatly hurt by the codec. Hand held is out, so you always have to have a tripod, bean bag, or some sort of device, so that defeats the whole look it's inconspicuous idea.... I'm in a hard spot trying to decide between it and the 7D because I like the panasonic motion and colors from my use of the hvx200a, but the 7D codec seems a lot more robust and a higher data rate although I don't know the exact spec on it yet.

That footage you posted was very nice but there are lots of little blockies in the darker areas but I can't really judge off of vimeo.

I don't think the 7D always looks like video.... while it does seem to pop the whites a little harsher, thee are some very nice filmic shots out there:
very nice 7D footage:

http://vimeo.com/7284726
(it's 30p but gorgeous and I don't think that looks like video)

What are the chances that they raise the data rate via firmware? or would that require new hardware?
 
Blackout said:
Ok, let me rephrase Michael... what I meant is that all the advanced features in the world don't mean much if the codec easily breaks up, and pretty much everyone who owns the camera is in consensus that the codec IS a problem, as can be read in almost every other post on this forum, vimeo, store review sections.. ect.
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Blackout, I think you are misreading the forums. There is near consensus that GH1 owners would like a higher data rate, not that the codec is a problem. I personally think that the GH1 footage is clearly better than the footage I've seen from the 7D and the 5D. I think the AVCHD codec is very good -- it provides glorious detail with minimal artifacts and excellent data rates. Many people who are complaining about mud don't appear to know what they are talking about, and the footage they are complaining about has much more serious problems (eg., out of focus, poor camera control, bad framing, and so on). And yes, I would like a higher bit rate for even more detailed frames just like I would like my car to accelerate quicker, go faster, use less gas, and last longer. But that doesn' t mean I'm unhappy with my car (which I'm not).
 
To me, I see the opposite analogy - having a 17 mbit cap in the GH1 is like having a 4 cylinder engine in a Lamborghini. What's the point of having the beautiful car if the engine cripples it? The codec is the engine of this camera and you must use it to get anything out as you can't go live hdmi out... so why did they put such a weak hobbling limit on a camera that can obviously do better? It's too good for amateurs and too weak for pros. Now I have seen a lot of footage and as long as the camera is locked down everything looks stunning. Move it and the trouble starts. I think the 7d has less jello. The 5D is a mess, I don't know how people use it other than total static shots as well. The colors and motion are better on the panny, yes... but what a hobbling with the codec.
 
I think there are some pros using it and some amazing footage being generated. However, the forums seemed to be filled with people repeating things about mud and banding who don't even own the camera. I think this becomes a self-fufilling prophecy, until, from sheer quantity of posts that say so, 'everyone knows' that the GH1 is broken.

I suspect with a 24p firmware update we're going to see this: 5D>GH1>7D.

But who knows?
 
noirist said:
To me, I see the opposite analogy - having a 17 mbit cap in the GH1 is like having a 4 cylinder engine in a Lamborghini. .
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Well I'm going to guess here; however in my opinion I believe the majority of people would agree a 4 cylinder Lamborghini would be waaaay cooler to own than a 4 cylinder Civic no matter what!

As well this 4 cylinder Lamborghini is going out the door at last year model Civic prices too. The camera is cheap in cost for what you get. 800 bucks for the body and a 50 dollar ebay lens can do wonders!


Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com


.
 
I didn't realize the body alone is that cheap. Most people get the kit lens I assume for the video features?

Well I am picking up one of these puppies tomorrow, and I really can't decide between the GH1 and the 7D... I am near just flipping a coin at this point.

From what I have seen of both cams, the break down is this:

GH1 Benefits

More filmic looking 24p motion / gamma if locked down
Perhaps more resolution? (if locked down or smooooth tripod)
Better control & ergonomics
Better LCD screen.
No aliasing problem on deep focus wide shots
720p mode & slomo much better than 7D

GH1 negatives
weak codec
weak codec
weak codec
seems to have more jello / image break up / artifacting in 1080p than the 7D
forget about hand held anything
not true 24p, have to do pulldown removal (wastes the thin codec even more)

7D benefits
higher bandwidth more robust codec
higher bandwidth more robust codec
higher bandwidth more robust codec
Has true 24p. Dump it in a timeline, no pulldown removal needed.
Richer colors right off the bat (some might see this as a negative)
Seems to have less jello in 1080 24p than the gh1
A lot less compression artifacts
You can get away with hand held stuff with much less jello / mud than the GH1
Most agree it's a better still camera than the GH1.

7D negatives
awful aliasing on horizontal lines in deep focus wide shots
seems to have hotter highlights (some complain too 'video' looking)
very saturated colors right off the bat (some see this as a positive)
lcd screen is small and can't swivel
controls and auto not as good as GH1
720p mode very poor
Lower resolution? on a chart than GH1

Well after going over that list, I definitely know now that I have no idea which camera to get.

Where's that coin?
 
Blackout said:
GH1 negatives

seems to have more jello / image break up / artifacting in 1080p than the 7D
ore)
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Wrong on the Jello. Image break-up can be mud from HEAVY motion. 7D has it's own sorts of artifacts color patterns/aliasing that are arguably worse.


Blackout said:
forget about hand held anything
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Way of base, here. There is no problem hand-holding the GH1. The codec breaks with serious movement and jerkiness, not a steady hand-held. Just shot a weeks worth of footage on a sailboat in the middle of the ocean with no stabilization. Not up yet, but I'm not seeing the mud. Only time I've seen the mud was a windy day in the jungle.
 
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