720p24(n) in FCP issues

M

markarellano

New member
Last week I shot my first project on the HVX200. It was shot in both 720p24 & 720p24n modes, because the Firestore we were recording to was very temperamental, and sometimes it would only let us record in 24 and sometimes only in 24 native.

When it came time to ingest the footage into FCP, I did exactly as told, and "Organized P2" on the Firestore and imported it into FCP (v5.0.4 at the time) via the "Import Panasonic P2" selection in FCP. I even did the Easy Setup for DVCPR0 HD - 720p24. Sure enough, the footage showed up, but some shots looked strobey and every clip needed rendering, which leads me to my three questions:

1) When the clips are brought into the timeline (23.98), they immediately need to be rendered. Is this just the way it works, or does it indicate a workflow error? Is there something I need or needed to check or uncheck?
2) How can I discern which clips are 24 and which are 24n, and do they need to be treated/imported differently (i.e. remove duplicate/adv. pull-down frames, etc.)? It seems this might be what's causing the post-rendering stroby effect that was not present during recording.
3) After importing, I've since upgraded/crossgraded to FCP v5.1.2. Can the footage be reimported, making all these issues will go away?

Adding insult to injury, Apple states in the manual update that all 720p24 footage imported via P2 in FCP 5.0.4 must use the Frame Rate Converter plug-in, which they warn removes audio and timecode. Give me a break.

Before I embark on this editing odyssey (oddity?), I want to make sure my workflow is rock-solid, which is why I've come to y'all before doing any irreversible damage. Any advice or experiences shared about sensible, efficient workflows would be mighty appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark
 
One quick observation:

The Firestore DOES NOT currently support any pNative mode.

Did you make certain you have the remove redundant frames check in the preferences of the p2 import?
 
My DP tells me that she was able to record in Native format by switching the Firestore setting to DVCPRO50 (something about a recent Firestore firmware update), while still recording an HD signal.

As for the "remove redundant frames" check in the preferences of the p2 import, that was not a feature/option in FCP v5.0.4.
 
If you had to render, that means you had a mismatch between sequence settings and footage settings. I have never heard of setting the FS-100 to DVCPRO 50 while setting the camera for DVCPRO HD recording. It really is quite simple-- if you want 24p, just record 720p24. When you bring the files into FCP 5.1.2, just check remove duplicate frames. Your footage is then 23.98. If you do not check this, your footage will be 29.97 with the pulldown. To remove it, simply bring the footage into Cinema Tools or use the Remove Advanced Pulldown option under the Tools menu in FCP.

In any event, you really should not be working with P2 footage in FCP 5.0.4 since Apple has noted some problems with rendered P2 footage in that veresion.

Ned Soltz
 
markarellano said:
My DP tells me that she was able to record in Native format by switching the Firestore setting to DVCPRO50 (something about a recent Firestore firmware update), while still recording an HD signal.

As for the "remove redundant frames" check in the preferences of the p2 import, that was not a feature/option in FCP v5.0.4.
Click to expand...

I think your DP is sadly mistaken. Unless she is a BETA tester, the FS 3.0 firmware update hasn't been released yet and even if she had it, you wouldn't be able to record HD material with a DVCPro50 setting. They are two totally different codecs as DVCPro50 is Standard Def.
Having to render footage when inserting it to a DVCPro HD 24p time line means you have footage that doesn't match your settings. You should check the info (apple+9) on your clips as it sounds to me like you might have SD footage. If that's the case you would need to open a new project and use the DV50 NTSC 24p easy set up if she did indeed shoot in DVCPro50.
 
markarellano said:
My DP tells me that she was able to record in Native format by switching the Firestore setting to DVCPRO50 (something about a recent Firestore firmware update), while still recording an HD signal.
Click to expand...


Never heard of this, nor is it in the literature. Plus how would this permit the FS100 to remove redundant frames on the fly? It doesn't have that capability.
 
ozduc said:
you wouldn't be able to record HD material with a DVCPro50 setting. They are two totally different codecs as DVCPro50 is Standard Def.
Having to render footage when inserting it to a DVCPro HD 24p time line means you have footage that doesn't match your settings. You should check the info (apple+9) on your clips as it sounds to me like you might have SD footage. If that's the case you would need to open a new project and use the DV50 NTSC 24p easy set up if she did indeed shoot in DVCPro50.
Click to expand...

That the footage was actually recorded in DVCPro50 (SD!) was my initial fear, though my FCP browser tells the truth about the clips -- Compressor: DVCPRO HD 720p60, Pixel Aspect: HD (960x720). It's most likely that she just got really bad advice from the rental facility, as the manager didn't seem to know much about the Firestore at all. At any rate, somehow we managed to record an HD signal.

What is most telling is the mismatch between my footage settings and the sequence settings, in particular -- Clip Vid Rate: 59.94 fps vs Sequence Vid Rate: 23.98 fps & Clip TC rate: 60 vs Sequence TC Rate: 24. So that explains the need to render upon dragging into the timeline, but it doesn't explain how to get the clips to match the sequence.

So it's become obvious that given that FCP v5.0.4 did not have a "remove redundant frames" option in the P2 import window, one more step must be employed before the footage will be compatible with the DVCPRO HD 720p24 timeline.

As Ned says, "To remove (duplicate frames), simply bring the footage into Cinema Tools or use the Remove Advanced Pulldown option under the Tools menu in FCP," which seem like sensible solutions (I wonder if one is superior to the other), though Apple recommends using the Frame Rate Converter plug-in from Panasonic, which strips audio and timecode, yikes. Needless to say, I'll try Ned's solutions first, thanks.

Lastly, I just got the advice to simply edit the footage on a 59.94 fps timeline and conform it to 23.98 via dropping duplicate frames when the project's completed. Any potential pitfalls with this solution?

Many thanks,
Mark
 
Version 3.0 of the FS-100 firmware coming out soon, is in beta testing now, and will give you five recording modes to chose from:
Raw DV
P2
P2 Native
QuickTime
Quicktime Native
 
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