720p 60I Confirmed

I'd say that's a hopeful sign, but until I fire up my 5D in 720/60p mode, I would say nothing is confirmed. Fingers crossed.
 
Possibly. It's also likely the updated firmware would tweak a few other things, and one of them might be the overheating warning. If they're adding these frame rates, it would also make sense if they adjusted how soon the heat warning comes on.

But we'll find out sometime in the first half of 2010. :D
 
YES!!!! So happy I chose the 5D over the 7D. I was on the fence and wanted the 24p and 60p and thought i would just have to live with out the 60p. But now it looks like I can have the super smooth slow mo! YES
 
mhood said:
Barry commented that it is likely framerate that is causing my 7D to heat up rather quickly.
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Wasn't meant specifically for you, just the trend of the board lately. But let me point you to the armchair words. Barry....commented....likely....causing. Look no one here can answer that without a confirmation from Canon. Why has everyone on here become so definitive in their speculation on what's going to happen with any of these cameras? We can't confirm what's going to happen to us in the next 20 seconds...oops I farted...see did not see that one coming,
 
In listening to what he said I heard him mention that the 5Dll will only get 24p…and then he mentions the other three cameras having multiple frame rates.

EDIT: Believe me...I was listening intently to what he had to say and this is what I made out almost verbatim:
“there’s going to be a firmaware update that we’ll add to the 5D that will add 24 frames to the…to the camera itself….and we are expecting that …ah..the first half of next year. So we’ll add the 24 frame rate to the 5D and then we’ll add to the other 3 cameras which do 24p..23.98…um ..29 and uh 30 and 60i. Ah..also 720p as well as 1080 nowYou’ll have 60 frames a second in 720p mode..so there’ll be a lot of choices in terms of frame rates…..”

....I know...I'm strange...
 
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Good question. I guess we should ask..."what is that camera sitting in front of him during the lecture?" I believe the screen is displaying what's coming from that camera.
 
cinebuddy said:
Wasn't meant specifically for you, just the trend of the board lately. But let me point you to the armchair words. Barry....commented....likely....causing. Look no one here can answer that without a confirmation from Canon. Why has everyone on here become so definitive in their speculation on what's going to happen with any of these cameras? We can't confirm what's going to happen to us in the next 20 seconds...oops I farted...see did not see that one coming,
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Of course no one can answer anything definitively without an official statement from the manufacturer (which is actually why words like 'likely' are used, to show it is not a definitive answer). The thing is, if we all simply sat around silent waiting for a manufacturer's statement with every issue that ever comes up with a piece of gear then we wouldn't have much of a board.

You may call it "armchair engineering" - but until there is an official statement from Canon all we can do is share our personal experiences with eachother and via that information extrapolate what seems to be the most logical conclusion.

There is a difference between 'shot in the dark' guesses and potential explanations based on a pool of collective experience and repeatable data.
The former does no one any good - but the latter is, in my opinion, actually one of the biggest benefits of having a large community of active users sharing their experiences with eachother.

I agree - 'rumor mongering' is never a good thing.
But let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Of course no one can answer anything definitively without an official statement from the manufacturer (which is actually why words like 'likely' are used, to show it is not a definitive answer). The thing is, if we all simply sat around silent waiting for a manufacturer's statement with every issue that ever comes up with a piece of gear then we wouldn't have much of a board.

You may call it "armchair engineering" - but until there is an official statement from Canon all we can do is share our personal experiences with eachother and via that information extrapolate what seems to be the most logical conclusion.

There is a difference between 'shot in the dark' guesses and potential explanations based on a pool of collective experience and repeatable data.
The former does no one any good - but the latter is, in my opinion, actually one of the biggest benefits of having a large community of active users sharing their experiences with eachother.

I agree - 'rumor mongering' is never a good thing.
But let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.
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C'mon Luis that's what it is, and not just this camera...but the dslr's in general have raised a contentious level of arm chair engineers. The only real data we have is the name of the Digic processors, that's it. Originally it was presumed over and over that 24p would not make it on this camera. Jello, heat, blah blah blah... No one on these boards except for Jan and Barry can really comment on the Panny side...there is no such in road into the other mostly silent manufacturers.
 
cinebuddy said:
the dslr's in general have raised a contentious level of arm chair engineers.
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I don't disagree with you there - but my point was that we need to be able to separate what comments are completely unfounded from those that are actually based on something.

The only real data we have is the name of the Digic processors, that's it.
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Yeah, that and the experiences of hundred of members who use the camera.

Originally it was presumed over and over that 24p would not make it on this camera. Jello, heat, blah blah blah... No one on these boards except for Jan and Barry can really comment on the Panny side...there is no such in road into the other mostly silent manufacturers.
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Sure - if you're talking about the future of a specific product line.
Obviously no one can comment definitively about that - no argument there.

But your example was someone stating that the 7D overheating is likely caused by the increased framerate of 60p - which is in line with every users first hand experience that I've seen on this board (and others), and I don't think would fit at all into the realm of unsubstantiated speculation.
Sure, we may not be able to say 'definitively' that the use of the increased framerate leads to the overheating of the camera - but it definitely does seem 'likely' given the multiple user reports we've seen across this site and others.

So I agree - we need to keep the rumor mill and unsubstantiated speculation down... but let's not throw out what can learn from eachother's experience in the process. That was all I was saying.
 
cinebuddy said:
Originally it was presumed over and over that 24p would not make it on this camera. Jello, heat, blah blah blah...
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Well, to be fair, the "blah blah blah" part was Canon telling us "we tried it, we don't like it, we're not gonna do it." So forgive some of us for believing them when they said it...

No one on these boards except for Jan and Barry can really comment on the Panny side...
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I have no secret track to any inside information into anything, and even if I did, I would be prevented from saying anything by a nondisclosure agreement!

Nobody who knows anything can comment, outside of official statements from the companies themselves. That's why whenever anyone starts the rumor-mongering, I point back to the official statements. Tim Smith said he was shocked and floored when they decided to add manual controls, but he also said "no 24p on the 5D... it's not gonna happen." So I told folks that Canon said it's not gonna happen. Seems a reasonable course of action, doesn't it?

Yes, the Canon Product Manager for Digital Imaging turned out to be wrong; Canon Europe announced that there will indeed be a 24p firmware update.

there is no such in road into the other mostly silent manufacturers.
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There's no road into any of the manufacturers unless the manufacturers themselves make the statements. Anyone who knew anything about the manufacturers were doing, would be under a nondisclosure agreement. Anyone who violates a nondisclosure agreement, will never hear any confidential information again.

So when you hear these rumors, it's almost always, certainly, and completely, guaranteed to be coming from someone who cannot possibly have actual insider information! They can make reasonable educated guesses, of course, and they may be exactly right (heck, Russell on "Survivor" has found three hidden immunity idols, without having a single clue to the location of any of them! He just happens to know how people think and the types of places where they would be logical to be hidden). I pretty much nailed the "Canon's Big Announcement" as being nothing to do with video cameras at all (the PDF thing), and predicted very closely what the Sony NXCAM announcement was going to be, because it was logical and obvious.

But if you want to be sure of what the manufacturer is doing, the only way to really truly know that is to listen to what they say, and if they haven't said it, you shouldn't count on it. Unfortunately, what the manufacturers say, and what they end up doing, turn out to be the opposite (witness the 24p firmware update on the 5D).
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Sure, we may not be able to say 'definitively' that the use of the increased framerate leads to the overheating of the camera - but it definitely does seem 'likely' given the multiple user reports we've seen across this site and others.
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Agreed here, for the exact reasons Luis indicates. People have done testing on the 7D and found it overheating quicker in 480/60 and 720/60 than in 1080/24, so we guess and extrapolate from that data into a theory that says we believe it is likely that it is the frame rate that is causing the issue.

But because we are not the engineers who designed the product, we cannot definitively say it as such.

Another example is the "line skipping" thing. People went around declaring that it was an absolute truth that the Canons were skipping lines to generate their images. I was the guy saying "who says?" And, it turned out that Canon flatly denied line skipping! However, after further testing and reading, y'know what? Looks like Canon might be wrong on that, because others have tested and verified that the results they get on the vertical, are absolutely consistent with what would happen if one skipped rows on the sensor...

Another case of the Canon rep not knowing what Canon themselves is doing? Possibly. Or a case of "whether it is or not, it certainly acts like it is?" Possibly. I submit that we cannot know for sure. All we can do is take the available information and make the best decisions about how the product will perform for our intended purposes.

So I agree - we need to keep the rumor mill and unsubstantiated speculation down... but let's not throw out what can learn from eachother's experience in the process. That was all I was saying.
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As long as unsubstantiated speculation is labeled as such, it's not that bad. What gets under my skin is when people pass unsubstantiated speculation off as fact. That's where it gets problematical.

(and, let's point out -- unsubstantiated speculation can also occasionally turn out to be true.)

Point out that it's unsubstantiated speculation, sure.

I mean, even in this thread, can we poke holes? Sure. Tim Smith said "60i". Will there be 60i in the 5D? I dare say there won't be, as none of the other products (including the 1D Mk IV) offer 60i. I think he misspoke and didn't intend to say "60i". But some people will cling to that as an official announcement saying that there will be 60i. Others might point out that the exact same individual is the one that told us there wouldn't be a 24p firmware update, so ...
 
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