C100: 7 Weeks to NAB - Anyone hearing anything besides conjecture about a C100 MKIII?

coutard said:
I know...even XF105 has SDI & genlock & TC !
for half the price...
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Yes, but the other way of looking at it is that you're paying $500 extra to get these features over the XF100.

Canon seem to be pretty 'good' at separating their different cameras for different markets (or 'bad', depending on how you look at it!). This is probably why the DSLR's got no significant upgrades for many years after they accidentally started the revolution - it would've messed with their defined markets too much.

XF105 does not have a lot of common ground with something like the C100, so there's not much chance that people will buy the XF105 over the C100mkII just because they need genlock & TC. Those features in that camera are probably aimed at people doing low-budget live production or multicam events, concerts, etc, rather than trying to jam TC with an audio mixer and feed a raw recorder and directors monitor on a film set. Whereas if the C100 line had those features, it would directly effect the sales of the C300 line.

Logical, but still very frustrating!
 
"Different strokes..." is right. The FF of the 100/II allows me to run up&down vertical staircases with one hand. I have no idea if the 700 style box would travel the same or not as I am not in that league of shooters and never will find out. If Canon decided to propagate that design down to the bottom of the range, well, I guess I'd have to keep the 100 around for awhile. I'd take the vertical design over the horizontal any day. The argument of the necessity of purchasing rigging to "properly" position the current 100/300/500 is lame. I've shoulder and chest mounted mine with about $500 worth of goods- less than the cost of a proper lens.
 
The C700 seems to be an indication that Canon is willing to make cameras for those who like shoulder mount. I expect that we will see a lower speced shoulder mount camera in the future. That being said, I am perfectly happy with the C100 form factor. I think it is fantastic for handheld. It's just not designed for shoulder mount. Put a strap or sling on it and your set. Hold it to your eye, push it against your chest. push out against the strap, set it on the floor or a table, raise it above your head, hold it your knee. Just don't put it in your shoulder.
 
This looks like a discussion of Alexa vs. Alexa Mini.

(if there was a hypothetical ARRI forum on DVXUser)
 
With a shoulder mount I can't do discrete shooting. Even though slightly larger than the current DSLRs, still in some cases when I shoot people think I am one of those DSLR shooters. However rigging it big is simply disaster for my kind of shooting. There are some docs where I have to show up with a smaller footprint. Large or long camera rigged up means the person becomes more nervous. For many people such setting screams of "TV" and they get psyched. In one case, the person just answered in monosyllables ruining my interview.

And there are cases like last weekend where we were shooting interviews for a US based net streaming company and the size of the rooms were small. It was difficult to even place the camera and stand. It was cramped. A longer camera by even 1 inch would have been a challenge. If in these cases I would had a C700 form factor, then I would have been dead. I can't rip apart a long shoulder mount camera to make it small.

People in these boards complained about the C300 handle. So Canon made it beefier in the Mark II. Now same set of guys complain about it. I find it tough to search for an allen key to remove the top handle of C300II. The point I am trying to make is there are pros and cons. Canon listens to some of these rants, so I am worried. Some of you guys have successfully shot for 20-25 yrs or more, so I understand you don't want to move to a different form factor than you are used to. However, there are some small time guys like us who love this formfactor and don't want the shoulder mount. If I want a shoulder mount, then I will rig it.

Even with a shoulder mount, people will invariably try and buy their own favourite brand of shoulder mount. So why complain for the present form factor? Rig it to your liking.
 
cpreston said:
The C700 seems to be an indication that Canon is willing to make cameras for those who like shoulder mount. I expect that we will see a lower speced shoulder mount camera in the future. That being said, I am perfectly happy with the C100 form factor. I think it is fantastic for handheld. It's just not designed for shoulder mount. Put a strap or sling on it and your set. Hold it to your eye, push it against your chest. push out against the strap, set it on the floor or a table, raise it above your head, hold it your knee. Just don't put it in your shoulder.
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I've done all of those. But when you get a stand up 20 minute interview with an actor who is 6' 2", and you have to hold the camera high so you are not shooting up their nose, not braced with your arms into your chest, your C100 is wearing the big battery, the 17-55 2.8 IS, Ninja Blade with two LP-E6s, wireless hop from sound mixer, I don't care how strong you are, your neck and shoulder muscles cramp up after 10 minutes and you fight your shot getting shaky. Gotta be shoulder mounted for a lot of my stuff. That's the thing, if I ever shot with just the C100, small lens and no top handle (I've done it for low key broll, trying to look like a tourist), it might work but I always have a lot of other gear along for the ride for most of my shooting.

I just did the full laundry list with ALL of the stuff I normally use with the C100 since I am going to buy a new travel tripod head (didn't even include my Røde wireless receivers or sound mixers wireless for hop from mixer), and with the new Zacuto rig it comes to 13.5lbs for my little C100! i want to separate my Sachtler head from the Miller Solo DV carbon legs but I weighed my little DV6SB Sachtler head and it weighs almost 13lbs! I was going to try to carry it in my camera backpack but it's too large and heavy when I include five lenses, C100, 80D, batteries, etc. I have done the 60lb camera backpack more times than I care to remember so adding in another 12lbs for my Sachtler head, ouch. I may pick up the Manfrotto 504 HD Fluid Head, it's only six pounds. Not in the same league as my Sachtler but I won't have to carry the head (I can live with putting a $350.00 head in my luggage, but not a $2,500.00 head) and the 504HD only weighs about half of the Sachtler and it supposedly has an 11.5lb and 16.5lb counterbalance setting to handle my rig.

Amazing that I used lug a 25lb Betacam, then an F900, on my shoulder and one hand carrying a 22lb Sachtler Video 20, and a backpack with two or three of the BIG Heavy Anton Bauer bricks. Oh, yes, and a few Betacam, then HD tapes too, they weren't exactly light either. I recall shooting a few days at the Miller Lite MVP Volleyball Tournament in Santa Monica, I carried that package all day through deep sand on the beach and shot fourteen hours my first day. At the end of the day, when I got back to my car, the bruise on my shoulder was so intenses that blood had seeped out of the pores in my skin and stained up my entire shoulder and shirt as well as the camera's shoulder pad. So I guess the weight is all relative. And I was in my early 30s then too ;-)
 
indiawilds said:
With a shoulder mount I can't do discrete shooting. Even though slightly larger than the current DSLRs, still in some cases when I shoot people think I am one of those DSLR shooters. However rigging it big is simply disaster for my kind of shooting. There are some docs where I have to show up with a smaller footprint. Large or long camera rigged up means the person becomes more nervous. For many people such setting screams of "TV" and they get psyched. In one case, the person just answered in monosyllables ruining my interview.
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I completely agree that smaller cameras help in certain situations - discrete shooting in public, extremely fast paced etc. where people could react differently depending on what you're shooting with. You can see in 'Hoop Dreams', which was filmed over eight years, the subjects are shy at the beginning. Pretty quickly though they act like themselves, as if the camera wasn't there. To your point, a smaller camera can help in short form productions but I think is irrelevant to a subject's behavior for even slightly longer projects. I'm sure puredrifting can comment on how long it takes before subjects are at ease.

I think blaming camera size for poor interviews though is clutching at straws. The interview is where you're (supposedly) in control. Sure there may be some initial apprehension but that same person answering in monosyllables is probably a terrible subject regardless of camera size. If a producer/interviewer can't extract decent content from an interviewee, they either: chose the subject poorly, didn't set the correct expectations before the interview, or are not strong interviewers.
 
indiawilds said:
With a shoulder mount I can't do discrete shooting. Even though slightly larger than the current DSLRs, still in some cases when I shoot people think I am one of those DSLR shooters. However rigging it big is simply disaster for my kind of shooting. There are some docs where I have to show up with a smaller footprint. Large or long camera rigged up means the person becomes more nervous. For many people such setting screams of "TV" and they get psyched.
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All well and good. And I completely see how in that sort of shooting a small footprint is advantageous. But the thing is, most of us do all sorts of shooting and not just one niche. The times where a small footprint is of more importance than the steadiness of being shoulder-mounted are, for me, few and far between. Funny, but it seems like IS only became something that was much wanted when cameras came off the shoulder. The off the shoulder style of shooting is, to some extent, only made possible by IS. I'm not wild about a style of shooting that needs an electronic crutch to compensate for its flaws.

The wonderful thing about a camera like the Sony Fs7, and to a lesser extent the C100 / C300, is that it can be whatever you want it to be. You can morph it rather easily.

From this:

Sony-PXW-FS701small.jpg



to this:


wtssonypxw-fs74kcameraibc2014.jpg


For someone familiar with the setup, morphing from one form to the other can be done in less than 5 minutes.

I enjoy shooting in the stripped-down mode. It is liberating in a way. I just don't care for all the downsides, the biggest downside being camera jitter that, while more acceptable than it used to be and also now able to be calmed down in post with software, just looks amateurish to me. Trying to ride focus looking at an LCD screen in full sun or through a tiny lil' monocular vf of a "prosumer" quality- that's no fun at all.

long and low > short and tall
 
puredrifting said:
I've done all of those. But when you get a stand up 20 minute interview with an actor who is 6' 2", and you have to hold the camera high so you are not shooting up their nose, not braced with your arms into your chest, your C100 is wearing the big battery, the 17-55 2.8 IS, Ninja Blade with two LP-E6s, wireless hop from sound mixer, I don't care how strong you are, your neck and shoulder muscles cramp up after 10 minutes and you fight your shot getting shaky. Gotta be shoulder mounted for a lot of my stuff. That's the thing, if I ever shot with just the C100, small lens and no top handle (I've done it for low key broll, trying to look like a tourist), it might work but I always have a lot of other gear along for the ride for most of my shooting.
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That's actually another issue I have with shoulder mounting; it's more difficult to get the correct height. If the person is significantly taller than you, then you have to awkwardly ask them to spread their legs to lower their height while they talk, which only works if they aren't a whole lot taller than you. If they're a lot shorter than you, then you have to spread your legs to lower your height, which can make standing stable for a long period of time more difficult, and is also difficult if they're significantly shorter than you.

With a monopod or tripod, you simply adjust the height of it to the exact height you need which is a much wider range than what the height of your shoulder just happens to be in relation to your interview subject. It's also less fatiguing than shoulder mounting.


Sometimes I wonder if I do the exact same type of shooting as others, but manage quite fine without a shoulder mount setup. Take convention shoots, for example, which I know Ned does. I typically walk around with a tripod or monopod, while I believe Ned typically has a shoulder rigged frankenrig for the same type of shoot.

I also have a strap for my monopod, so if I want to go handheld without worrying about losing my monopod, I can just strap it onto my back and shoot handheld. Sometimes I'll bring my Glidecam around with me while also carrying a monopod and the camera, with either the monopod or Glidecam strapped to my back while the camera is attached to the other.

Obviously if you add more stuff (such as adding a Ninja Blade) then it will make cradle handheld shooting for long periods more difficult.
 
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NorBro said:
And the main rumor site mentioned again today that Sony is about to drop another "BIG" announcement in April.

Would be perfect for a 4K/60p A7SIII, but I guess other cameras are "supposed to" receive an update before it.
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I've been told no new cameras from Sony at NAB, this year. I've also been told by a sales rep that in-general, it's going to be a very quite year for cameras.
 
deltoidjohn said:
A7S line is not really a "broadcast" market product, so unlikely to appear at NAB. I wonder if F5/F55 replacements are on the way though? The rumour sites have been touting those since two NAB's ago!
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You will not see an F5/55 replacement at NAB this year.
 
control4userguy said:
"Different strokes..." is right. The FF of the 100/II allows me to run up&down vertical staircases with one hand. I have no idea if the 700 style box would travel the same or not as I am not in that league of shooters and never will find out. If Canon decided to propagate that design down to the bottom of the range, well, I guess I'd have to keep the 100 around for awhile. I'd take the vertical design over the horizontal any day. The argument of the necessity of purchasing rigging to "properly" position the current 100/300/500 is lame. I've shoulder and chest mounted mine with about $500 worth of goods- less than the cost of a proper lens.
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Parts list please? I've rigged mine out for shoulder mounted shooting for just a few hundred dollars but there are still critical issues that cannot be solved for MY needs and workflow, but could be perfectly acceptable to someone shooting a different style project. For me, having to dismount the camera from my shoulder, and then hover it by the handle with one hand while attempting to slide the shoulder pad backward on the rails so it is out of the way of the tripod head so I can snap it back onto the tripod is awkward and a situation that could be dangerous even in my line of work. Might be perfectly acceptable way of working for an indie filmmaker though. Having to mount a 3lb counterweight at the end of long set of 15mm rods works, but it makes the rig excessively long for the tight situations I often have to shoot and transport in. Dismissing how some of us need the camera and rig to work for our style of shooting as "lame" is lame.
 
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coutard said:
To me c100 is a great cam for low-budget documentary, but I'm tired of not having TC-in...is it that much to ask ?

- 4K 4:2:0 8 bits 25fps
- HD 4:2:2 8 bits 120 fps
- SDI out and TC-in

I'd go for it.
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Is it too much to ask for the manufacturers to give us simultaneous TC IN AND OUT like we have on our broadcast/ENG cams so we can daisy chain on multi-cam shoots? Even $30K F55's and $60K VariCam 35's only give you IN OR OUT, not both simultaneously.
 
Run&Gun said:
I've been told no new cameras from Sony at NAB, this year. I've also been told by a sales rep that in-general, it's going to be a very quite year for cameras.
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It's all falling into place...

I heard no new cinema cameras from Canon...you heard no new cameras from Sony...Blackmagic possibly has nothing else...RED isn't going...ARRI? Panasonic? JVC? Olympus? Nikon?
 
Not that he views anyone as competition, but he's probably thinking, "No one's announcing anything new at NAB, we don't need to go." lol

j/k
 
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