7.7.7.7 - the great FS700/FS7/A7s/O7Q puzzle.

Prendi said:
I have to say, I'm not fully understanding why everyone is going so mental over the FS7. I see the form factor is nicer (still not that nice) and it has Slog3 but apart from that, what am I missing? I looked over the specs an my first reaction was "OK, this does nothing more than what my FS7Q does"... Assuming CD actually pull their finger out and completes their promise of 4k ProRes @ 60fps and 2k ProRes at 120fps and actually manages to release a firmware which is stable and doesn't randomly spaz out.

I simply don't see enough progress to justify upgrading to another sony camera right now
Click to expand...

cuervo said:
I must agree, Prendi
Click to expand...

You guys answered your own question. You asked what is special about it VS. FS700+7Q, then go on to list the negatives of the FS700+7Q! You don't have a second unit to power, keep updated, or risk "spazzing out" or failing. That's huge! It also would save weight for run-n-gun or documentary styled work.

So to answer your question, it kind of does most of what the FS700+7Q does, but with an $8000 camera instead of $8000 body + $2300 7Q + $800 in SSDs + $800 codec license + Additional weight and batteries + Another device that could glitch/fail... Is that not a benefit? You're comparing a heavier $12k+ setup to a more streamlined/ergonomic $8k camera.

I think it's a pretty substantial upgrade. 4K internal at 10-bit 422 instead of 1080p 8-bit 420. That's huge. Dual card slots. Way better ergonomics. Better OLED EVF. Non-stop 1080p180 (vs FS700 1080p60).

I understand that many of us have the 7Q but I see the 7Q as an independent unit, which has its own pros and cons, so I am comparing apples to apples by comparing the FS700 body (no 7Q) with the FS7.
 
jshbckr said:
I understand that many of us have the 7Q but I see the 7Q as an independent unit, which has its own pros and cons, so I am comparing apples to apples by comparing the FS700 body (no 7Q) with the FS7.
Click to expand...
And that's what my original post in this thread was about. The viability of the FS7 when you don't own the 7Q already. Whether to keep the FS700 and get a 7Q/Shogun down the road or try and sell to get the FS7. But somewhere along the way the thread turned into another general FS7 thread ;)

btw, I decided to get an A7s in addition to my FS700 instead of selling the FS700. In the end the secondary costs of the FS7 proved to be too costly for me and my needs are currently better served by a second camera. I do lust for the FS7 still, though!
 
Most of me is moving towards the idea of exchanging the FS700 for the FS7. I do not own the 7Q, and had planned to buy it soon. But the FS7 is looking more tempting for all the reasons mentioned by Josh. One possible exception may be the Atomos Shogun. If they deliver on the promise of recording 4K from the FS700 (and possibly at 60P) AND if it gets rid of the black aliasing issue just like the 7Q, but using low cost SSDs, then that might be an alternative for me. I'll wait and see!
 
If I was, primarily, an R&G shooter, I would be very excited about the FS7. But, the fact is that most of my work is on sticks. I hate, so much, staring at these ~3 to 4 inch LCD displays, so, no matter what I would be shooting with, an add-on monitor that displays the frame in nothing less than 5 inches becomes deriguer, whether that monitor records or not. All that aside, Sony is pushing the FS7 as an R&G camera. Nevertheless, by the time you get the addon units, which include the FS7 output unit, the HXR-IFR5 Interface Unit, and finally the AXS-R5 RAW recorder, you don't have an R&G camera any more. OK, so, admittedly an R&G shooter probably isn't terribly interested in RAW acquisition. Yet, i really have to question whether this cam is a long term investment, or only the cam-du-jour, until 6k, global shuttered, HDR cameras become readily available. I don't think this camera will stay current past NAB 2015. And, even my plans to go to an F5 are up in the air, considering the changes that are already starting to happen in camera offerings. Red has always been, arguably, a harbinger of what's coming. And Red Dragon is the handwriting on the wall, sooner than you might think.
 
Last edited:
RatLabProductions said:
With the FS7 I can offer 10bit 422 UHD up to 60fps (4K in update)
Click to expand...
Don't know why but I have a suspicion that the 4K will only be available with the pro accessory pack. Seems like all other of the functions announced to come in firmware update have been relating to that expansion pack.
Hope I'm wrong!
 
I totally get why people are excited about the FS7 -- I think it's an awesome camera. Shooting 4k in a fully integrated unit, nice form factor (for people who want that form factor)... and XAVC would be my personal choice of format, over ProRes or raw.


However I think the chorus of comments along the lines of "the FS700 is just a useless piece of junk now" that greeted the new announcement were a bit over the top. I really think the FS700 has a viable place, and serves different users than the FS7.


Think about this -- you can get a small, light camera (compared to the FS7) that shoots 240FPS HD slow mo (burst) with a power zoom lens -- for $6600! Where else are you going to get that deal? Slap on a 7Q (admittedly it costs almost as much as the camera, when you include media) and now you have 4k, ProRes, raw, 240FPS continuous.... and a 7" waveform monitor. And the 7Q has the potential for lots of other uses. For some people, I think that's a killer package. For others, the FS7 will be the easy winner.


Sadly I find myself right in the middle.... :-/
 
...and lay some money aside, because next year will come the ultimate camera - I think from Sony. But you can sell your FS7 than and...
Thats my vicious circle for years :-) Benn
 
jshbckr said:
You guys answered your own question. You asked what is special about it VS. FS700+7Q, then go on to list the negatives of the FS700+7Q! You don't have a second unit to power, keep updated, or risk "spazzing out" or failing. That's huge! It also would save weight for run-n-gun or documentary styled work.

So to answer your question, it kind of does most of what the FS700+7Q does, but with an $8000 camera instead of $8000 body + $2300 7Q + $800 in SSDs + $800 codec license + Additional weight and batteries + Another device that could glitch/fail... Is that not a benefit? You're comparing a heavier $12k+ setup to a more streamlined/ergonomic $8k camera.

I think it's a pretty substantial upgrade. 4K internal at 10-bit 422 instead of 1080p 8-bit 420. That's huge. Dual card slots. Way better ergonomics. Better OLED EVF. Non-stop 1080p180 (vs FS700 1080p60).

I understand that many of us have the 7Q but I see the 7Q as an independent unit, which has its own pros and cons, so I am comparing apples to apples by comparing the FS700 body (no 7Q) with the FS7.
Click to expand...

For sure, FS700 VS the FS7 is, well, no competition really. All I'm saying is that "if" CD get their act together and make good on all their promises, I still think the FS7Q beats the FS7. ProRes is still one of the most desirable codecs out there and the one that clients request.

However, I fully agree that the ergonomics are aweful and the built quality is quite poor, so the FS7 wins there for sure.

I just can't understand all the guys that have the FS7Q combo that are throthing to get this new Sony offering. It really doesn't do anything that the FS7Q can't do.
 
We have discussed the reasons a thousand times.

Some like the form factor of the FS7 a lot,
they also like 10bit onboard a lot,
some like this handgrip very much,
some like the NDs much better (can be dialed in smoothly)...

However, some like the differences very much, others don't.
What's there, you can't understand?

I will buy an FS7 if the money is there. The FS700 (which I don't have) was never
worth the update (I have the FS100) for me. But I always understood the people
who sold their FS100 to buy the FS700.

The FS700 + O7Q + Rig is still a very versatile and flexible system, it's just not
a complete "out-of-the-box" 4k 10bit camera you will put on your shoulder if you need!
 
Prendi said:
For sure, FS700 VS the FS7 is, well, no competition really. All I'm saying is that "if" CD get their act together and make good on all their promises, I still think the FS7Q beats the FS7. ProRes is still one of the most desirable codecs out there and the one that clients request.

However, I fully agree that the ergonomics are aweful and the built quality is quite poor, so the FS7 wins there for sure.

I just can't understand all the guys that have the FS7Q combo that are throthing to get this new Sony offering. It really doesn't do anything that the FS7Q can't do.
Click to expand...

I'm keeping the 7Q because according to Mitch it will work pretty much work exactly the same on the FS7 (4K RAW, 240fps RAW, Etc..)

The reason I'm getting the FS7 is because of security. I love the 7Q, but it does feel a bit beta at times. Sometimes I just get a black screen, other times the LED buttons don't work (which always kind of freak me out) and then I have to power cycle which makes me nervous as hell. And there has been a number of "Help! My 7Q won't work" threads.

So with the FS7, which has dual XQD slots, so I'm hoping that you can make a backup. I'd probably also use the 7Q on bigger shoots as well, so I will have Pro-Res from the 7Q and a good quality XAVC backup as well. Right now, the AVCHD backup just doesn't cut it quality-wise for the bigger budget projects.

Yes, I'm paranoid. I do quite a few, lower budget rent paying type jobs. But every few months I get to DP a good gig for a big network channel - good budget, decent sized crew, etc... On those jobs, if the 7Q failed I would have a heart attack, at least with an FS7 + 7Q I wouldn't be S.O.L. as I still have a good internal codec. I'm actually going to rent a backup 7Q for a network job coming up just for piece of mind.

So yeah, that's why I'm keeping the 7Q, selling the FS700 and getting the FS7. Security mainly and the 10-bit internal is nice as well.
 
Prendi said:
For sure, FS700 VS the FS7 is, well, no competition really. All I'm saying is that "if" CD get their act together and make good on all their promises, I still think the FS7Q beats the FS7. ProRes is still one of the most desirable codecs out there and the one that clients request.

However, I fully agree that the ergonomics are aweful and the built quality is quite poor, so the FS7 wins there for sure.

I just can't understand all the guys that have the FS7Q combo that are throthing to get this new Sony offering. It really doesn't do anything that the FS7Q can't do.
Click to expand...
For me, it's the little things. I want a built-in reference mic so I don't have to hook up a full XLR mic just for scratch audio. I want my shutter angle to stay locked at 180º and not jump around (which Scott Webster from Sony New Zealand/Australia told me today was fixed on the FS7). Magnesium body. Dust/moisture sealed buttons and wheels. Can anyone confirm that there is an ISO selection wheel?

I know people obsess over codecs and specs, but build quality matters. Ergonomics matter. Usability matters.
 
Just put in my preorder with B&H... I'm bummed the extension unit isn't available until December. Guess that means I'll be hanging onto the FS700 for a little bit for RAW 240fps.
 
dmitrizigany said:
I'm pretty sure the ISO can be assigned to one of the wheels.
Click to expand...

According to this sheet, you can have the following functions either on your handgrip (assignable dial)
or on the left side panel of the body (iris dial).

PXWFS7preso.071_640_360.jpg

(more here: http://provideocoalition.com/awilt/story/122-slides-on-the-sony-pxc-fs7/P3)



For me this is huge as I can do all the important things (exposure value) with my right hand, holding the camera
and adjusting focus and focal length with my left hand on the lens.

I was alway thinking ISO is now one of the exposure values, so it's needed right under your fingers...
 
Prendi said:
I think I explained fairly clearly why I don't get why everyone is hyping this thing so much. People have made it clear that it's the small details. Good to know. Thanks for clarifying.
Click to expand...

Sorry. I never wanted to sound rude...

I think rather the same way - a lot of excitement now. Most of this people will complain why there's no this and that in the future
and that Sony totally failed and be excited by the next big thing from Canon...

In the end the FS7 is one step in the right direction. A one-man-band camera with most of the features that we want integrated
in the body. Basicly it's a kind of EX1/EX3 with S35. I was excited with that cameras too, but never owned one. I rented...

The FS7 now is a milestone for me as I go mostly handheld in documentaries. I need it light and small and ready to go on the
shoulder or chest or on my knees quickly. I want 10bit and better codec than AVCHD (which I still use in 2 long-term projects).
I like to have the "open" mount, that I can use my trusty modded Canon FDs and stabilized zoom lenses like the Canon 24-105
on a speedbooster. I would have liked NP-F batteries and SD-Cards as they are cheap and small. You can always store them in
a save box (mine is even water resistant). I have tons of NP-Fs and don't like to switch.
But this is a little price to pay.

7k Euro here in germany is still a lot of money for me as most of my work isn't paid but heart-driven. Paid jobs are usually with
rented cameras anyway.

Will my footage look better than my FS100 footage?
I really don't think the difference will be huge. But it will give me much more possibilities to hold the camera and get always the
best perpective. Hopefully it's also easier to nail the focus. Expanded focus is nice, but it always jumps to a certain point in your
picture which can't be changed without the help of your left hand. That means camera shake and unusable footage.
I really, really hope, that you can choose expanded focus with your right hand and then move the expanded view to where you need it.
I rarely keep faces in the middle of my frame - I hate it...
 
"Basicly it's a kind of EX1/EX3 with S35"

Really? When did EX1/EX3 had that ergonomics of being leveled on the shoulder??

..even with warious rigs, you can not place viefinder enought upfront that could be balanced
 
I think it's really cool that you can assign focus to a dial on the hand grip. Is that for real? I wonder how that feels. I'm guessing it only works with E-Mount lenses too? (which i happen to have).
 
leteeci said:
"Basicly it's a kind of EX1/EX3 with S35"

Really? When did EX1/EX3 had that ergonomics of being leveled on the shoulder??

..even with warious rigs, you can not place viefinder enought upfront that could be balanced
Click to expand...

Believe it or not.

I pressed the EX1 against my chest and/or the EX3 with the shoulder pad on my shoulder.
Guess what: I still saw the display even if it was far from comfortable, but at least possible (for me).
It was never balanced for shoulder style, but you can (still I guess) turn the handgrip according
to your needs with a push of a button. I always loved this feature and never understood that
stupid mechanism on FS100/700...

As always: YMMV
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top