60d for sound

J Davis said:
I slate every shot while my 1st AD takes notes on wether we thought the take was good or bad, if there was a flub or ADR needed because a fire engine siren etc.
Then when it comes to the prelim edit we use the written notes to go to the best takes first. (my last project had 30-50 takes on some shots, minimum of 8-10 on simple shots).
On the 2nd system audio, I don't leave the audio recording to one huge file, I have a separate .WAV file for every take with an audio slate (1st AD calling out).
!st AD's notes from set are written in chronological order and so are the filenames on the wav files so its piss easy to locate.
When the project it edited, I use media manage to collect all the used files and the unused files hang around for 3-4 months before getting deleted.
(I don't use media manager to truncate files as I've had this error on me).
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Thanks J Davis. Your system sounds great for narrative work, but not at all usable for most videography work.
 
yes I don't do videography work - but that's what surprises me - I would never choose a DSLR for videography. Why would you? A camcorder does that job so much better.
 
J Davis said:
yes I don't do videography work - but that's what surprises me - I would never choose a DSLR for videography. Why would you? A camcorder does that job so much better.
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Yeah, I know. But I'm trying to justify selling some of my gear, because of the possible redundancy.

Trying.
 
Also I own a 7d but am looking into a 60d. So far it seems like a better option for video than having a 7d. So what if the Zoom H4n audio is better. You guys are missing the point. The point is that it is very nice to have the option to record in camera if you absolutely can't do a dual audio system. I am hearing great things about this camera except on this thread.
 
JPM Photography said:
Even though there is manual adjustment, the sound quality will still not be amazing at all because it records in Linear PCM. Plus there is no phantom power. Idk, for me, it just makes more sense to continue recording with the H4N.
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Linear PCM is used in formats like WAV and AIFF and is still the best quality that can be achieved. Not surprisingly, a quick lookup tells that the H4N ALSO records in Linear PCM. If you don't know please just don't tell, people can get confused.
 
Idsz, thank you for clarifying that.

I have a question that nobody has been able to answer: Is it advisable to plug a shotgun mic, like the Rode NTG-2 (non-phantom power), into a 60d, with a simple XLR to mini jack cable? Or is something like a Beachtek adapter needed for quality audio?
 
Metrolens said:
Idsz, thank you for clarifying that.

I have a question that nobody has been able to answer: Is it advisable to plug a shotgun mic, like the Rode NTG-2 (non-phantom power), into a 60d, with a simple XLR to mini jack cable? Or is something like a Beachtek adapter needed for quality audio?
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Am very interested in this thread to...for exactly the same reason...have a 60D and XLR mics...

If I can avoid having to record audio on a separate device it would be great....

But I do need phantom power...and having proper audio meters would be great....


Is there some device..(maybe the h4n?) that you can plug your mics into...then plug from there via a line out into the input on the 60D....

You would have levels...phantom power..headphones etc....but also audio record directly in sync with the 60D video footage...

The only thing you would need to just calibrate is having the h4n (or whatever box you use) at a consistent level going to the input on the 60D..ie set the 60D input level at a nice level...and then set it and forget....adjust everything via the H4n...

Does this theory have any merit?
 
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Hi Metrolens. Well, I checked the site and it says it needs 48+ phantom power (which the 60d doesn't provide), but it also works with AA batteries so it should work. Maybe best if you mail Rode for that since I don't know if it will fry your 60d's preamp (probably not but you'll hate me if it does :)) I know the Rode Videomic is also a good option since it has a shockmount and provides good quality for it's price.

If anyone's interested:

http://cheesycam.com/manual-audio-levels-canon-60d/

there's a lot of talk about the 60d quality and the H4N
 
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Idsz said:
Hi Metrolens. Well, I checked the site and it says it needs 48+ phantom power (which the 60d doesn't provide), but it also works with AA batteries so it should work. Maybe best if you mail Rode for that since I don't know if it will fry your 60d's preamp (probably not but you'll hate me if it does :)) I know the Rode Videomic is also a good option since it has a shockmount and provides good quality for it's price.

If anyone's interested:

http://cheesycam.com/manual-audio-levels-canon-60d/

there's a lot of talk about the 60d quality and the H4N
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Thanks for taking a stab at answering Idsz! But we still haven't quite gotten to the heart of the question. :)

Yes the NTG-2 gives you the option of using Phantom Power or AA batteries. The 60d doesn't have Phantom Power, so you would need to use a mic that provides its own power.

The 60d has no Headphones jack, and the levels are controlled inside a menu, and can't adjust it once you're rolling, so these are huge advantages of using something like a Beachtek or H4N.

But other than that, would the straight into cam with a XLR to mini cable work??? (I'm amazed at how long it's taking for someone to actually nail the answer to this question. :) )
 
Metrolens said:
Thanks for taking a stab at answering Idsz! But we still haven't quite gotten to the heart of the question. :)

Yes the NTG-2 gives you the option of using Phantom Power or AA batteries. The 60d doesn't have Phantom Power, so you would need to use a mic that provides its own power.

The 60d has no Headphones jack, and the levels are controlled inside a menu, and can't adjust it once you're rolling, so these are huge advantages of using something like a Beachtek or H4N.

But other than that, would the straight into cam with a XLR to mini cable work??? (I'm amazed at how long it's taking for someone to actually nail the answer to this question. :) )
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Assuming the output level of the mic is at the correct level it would have to work wouldn't it?

By the sound of it the issue can be noise...

some of the threads re: 5D talk about this..

eg.

"
The pre amps in the 5D are terrible (super noisy), but I still shoot with the rode videomic with the audio set to manual. To get the best audio (from what I have read and listened to) on the 5D you should use an external preamp like the juicedlink cx211 with your microphone. Turning the input gain on the 5D to the lowest setting (one click from the left) and then turning the gain on your juicedlink up to compensate. The juicedlink preamps are really clean where the 5D's are really noisy. "

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding...482795-any-better-external-mic-option-5d.html

I can appreciate you want to keep things simple and just go direct...I do too!

.a really lightweight intermediate box would still be useful though wouldn't it?
ie. Headphones/Levels/Phantom Power


I'd love some "adaptor" that does this...but also is not big and heavy....mobility is really useful...but if is small enough...and audio can be directly recorded on the 60D I think this would be a great solution...

but yes..we really need informed experience from a 60D user...
 
To answer your question this can be achieved. You need to buy an adapter. They make them, in addition to that you can find one that does phantom power and you can adjust the levels prior to going into the camera. If you are in Los Angeles try LOCATION SOUND in Burbank. They will have anything you need and if not they will point you to the right direction.
 
hey. im looking at buying a 60d over a 7d for a few reasons but i do like the fact you can turn off AGC. i only just realised it doesnt have a headphone jack. originally i was thinking of using a rode videomic and just run it straight into the camera. now i was wondering if i bought a zoom h1 could i run it into the camera and just use it as a mic and also use the headphone jack of the zoom to listen to the audio?
also if this worked would i have to press the record button on the zoom each time i pressed record on the camera? sorry im a bit of a noob when it comes to dslr's and especially audio.
thanks alot
Xander
 
Since the NTG-2 provides it's own power with batteries it can be directly used from xlr to mini jack, since the audio output is powered by these batteries.

To get back on topic again, I found that the 60d (like all the other Canon DSLR's) records 16bit audio, which is indeed of lower quality than the Zoom H4N (or H1) which is 24bit.

So xander1 it wouldn't make much of a difference since both the audio output of the h1 as the videomic is processed in 16bit. The question is: Is that really that bad? It's still CD quality.

Anyone got a videofile for me from the 60d with a mic (not internal) directly plugged in? I got a pretty good studio setup here so I can check what actual (audible) difference it makes
 
thanks Idsz. thats what i was hoping. i dont need the most crystal clear perfect sound and if i can avoid having to sync audio in post production and still maintain "decent" sound quality i'd be stoked.
do you know the answer to my question if i could use the headphone jack of the h1 to hear what the 60d would be recording? and would it work as just an external mic such as the rode videomic once connected or would i have to press record on the h1 aswell?
sorry im not very good at explaining things. simply. can the zoom h1 be used as an external mic and add a headphone jack to the canon 60d?
 
the best option for running sound to your 60d would be a sound devices mixpre. it provides great pre-amps to power your mics, it has amazing limiters(so you don't over modulate your camera's audio), it has audio meters, it can send out a 1k tone(to set the level on your camera) and most importantly, a headphone jack(whats the purpose of you can't monitor your audio?)

its not cheap, but you'll thank yourself later for buying it. and these things are built like a tank. there are other small cheaper mixers, but please don't waste your time with them.

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=448&cat=49&page=1

you can use an 1/8"th cable with a line to mic pad in it(mixer's 1/8" out is tape level, camera is mic level) and you'll be set. trew audio can make that cable for a great price.
 
J Davis said:
yes I don't do videography work - but that's what surprises me - I would never choose a DSLR for videography. Why would you? A camcorder does that job so much better.
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not being trollish here but we use DSLR's for event filming because they produce shots that are simply unattainable with anything even remotely close in their price ranges. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hartl...3687#!/album.php?aid=32538&id=119224871433687

These are grabs from a 4-band live concert shoot using a 550D and GH13, both at ISO 800. These beauty shots are to die for IMO and are impossible to get in these lighting conditions with just about anything else, not to mention completely run & gun where you are pulling focus by the seat of your pants @ 1.4 with people who never stop moving! When cut together properly, this will be BETTER than broadcast quality using $700 cameras.
 
16bit is still really high quality audio. 24bit is a great option but that fact that you are seeing 16bit audio kind of low is something not accurate and shouldn't steer people from using it only to use 24bit audio. Maybe you not actually saying that but it sounds very slightly misleading. Not attacking your comment or the help you are offering because you are offering some very good advice. Just adding to what you are saying. Also, back in the day the DVX used to record 16bit audio and I so did every other camera.

24bit can even almost and I stress the word almost be considered overkill. Not really but just saying of course use it if you can but still 16bit is very very high quality.
 
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