60D First and Second Lenses to get!?!? Opinions needed!

Orpheus said:
If I decide to follow AGMedia's advice and get a Canon 50mm f/1.4 - link instead of the kit lens, and then down the road in a couple months time I pick up the Canon 85mm f/1.8 - lin...what is everyone's opinion on that?
Click to expand...

They are both great lenses, but you will need a wider lens than a 50mm. A 50mm on a 60D is what you normally expect to see with an 80mm of a full frame camera. That's best suited for portraits. Forget interiors where you can't just back up a little.
Why not just get a used 18-55 kit lens on ebay to try your shooting range. An 18mm will still only be what you would see with a 28.8mm view on a full frame camera which still isn't super wide.

The kit lens will give you a chance to try IS as well. I thought that lens was a joke, but I couldn't get a body without it, I shot with it for 10 months. Way better than I expected for the money. Sharp, light weight and cheap with IS as a bonus.

Here is one sold for $60 bucks. When you are ready to upgrade you can get your $60 bucks back.

http://cgi.ebay.com/18-55mm-Canon-Lens-EF-S-/200606393906?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item2eb512a632

I shot these pre-pro test clips for my client the day I got my 550D with only the kit lens. High noon, no filters, no hood, full auto, didn't know anything about the camera yet.
 

Attachments

  • Nissan-1.jpg
    Nissan-1.jpg
    65.4 KB · Views: 0
  • Nissan-2.jpg
    Nissan-2.jpg
    67.3 KB · Views: 0
  • Nissan-3.jpg
    Nissan-3.jpg
    83.5 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
I had a canon auto focus 50mm f1.4 ... didn't like it. (not the 1.8 I mean the 1.4)
Just personal preference really. Didn't like the build quality or the bokeh. Preferred either my vintage ais 50/1.4 or
shooting 50mm a little slower at 2.8 on my 17-55 zoom. Maybe the next spare chunk of change I will pick up the Sigma 50/1.4

As for the canon 85mm f1.8 prime ... I love it, shoot with that every week. Here's one ...

5705509678_2997c26fc4_z.jpg
 
Rockmore--I would still get the 85mm down the road too...

J Davis--are you saying you would prefer the kit lens over the 50mm f1.4?

So do you agree that those three lenses would cover my bases pretty good?
 
A lot depends on your shooting style, as well, Orpheus. For example, if you are shooting live events and documentaries, you need to seriously consider the fact that focussing a dSLR is a real challenge. For such a purpose, I would throw out the idea of any all-manual vintage lenses, and stick with Canon or canon-compatible autofocus lenses. With autofocus, you can "cheat" and get accurate focus by half-pressing the shutter button before you activate video recording.

Another serious problem for dSLR's and live events and documentaries, is that zooming is very challenging. It does require a fixed aperture lens, like the 18-55 f2.8. A variable aperture zoom will invariably ruin the shot by introducing flickering. Also, most dSLR's don't hold focus when you zoom, so you have to adjust the focus after you've zoomed. With manual only focus available on any lens during recording, this is as challenging as it sounds :)

For the above two reasons, and others (the 12 minute recording limit for example), a "real" video camera is often recommended for live events or mission critical documentary work. These can certainly be mixed or matched, though, with dSLR's in the same show.

For doing anything cinematic, though, where you can lock the camera onto a tripod and reset the shot, then the lens you choose almost becomes an artistic choice. If you look hard, you can find a set of 3-4 primes for less than $1500, even $1000, and anything fully manual or Canon-compatible would be great. Since the time and expensive of elaborate lighting is often not an option for DSLR movie makers, one or two fast lenses would be great, and older Nikon lenses can be found in f1.4 speeds for not too much. An adapter can be $30 or less (see Fotodiox on ebay). If you go the adapter route, I would HIGHLY recommend that you get one adapter for each lens, and then just leave them on the lenses. (Don't forget the Canon rear lens caps for each lens in that case, your Nikon ones won't work!)

I just did some filming of a 4x4 trials even using a Tokina 80-200 f2.8 (Nikon mount) with an adapter, and the 17-55 f2.8 IS. The Tokina footage was softer, but sometimes softer is better with a 7D because it reduces moire and artifacts. Moving around quickly, off a tripod, the IS lens worked great and I had no shots with jello. There was minor microjitter jello off the Tokina, but not much. I have a 7" external monitor but I didn't use it much because I was moving the camera around too much, and the loupe is of limited use off of a tripod (it's more for handheld). So I have a 2x magnification eyeglasses, and was able to nail focus about 85% of the time. But focus is a real challenge on a run & gun shoot like that.

So to summarize, for documentary and live events, I would choose two or three fixed aperture zooms that cover about 17-200 mm, preferably with IS, and one fast prime, minimum f2, for indoor work, between 24-35mm. Don't make your only prime a 50mm! It's not wide enough, especially for indoors, and people shots. 35mm is OK, but go for 24 or 28mm if you can. IS isn't necessary for this lens, but I would recommend AF if possible unless you have really good vision and can nail focus most of the time. Don't worry about technical issues like CA or sharpness for the prime lens, these are very minor considerations. You or your audience will never see CA, only pixel peepers do.

For cinematic work, go for 2-4 good prime lenses, and a simple kit-type zoom lens, like the 15-85mm f3.5-5.5 Canon IS that I own. The zoom lens will cover you for focal lengths you don't have (like very wide), and since you won't be zooming, it works as a "variable prime". All modern kit lenses, even the plastic ones, are sharp enough for DSLR video work, which doesn't even resolve to full HD. They are designed for 12 MP or more, so sharpness isn't an issue. Choose your primes depending on budget, mechanics, your ability to focus, and whether you like the look of the lens, etc.

Good luck!
 
Orpheus said:
J Davis--are you saying you would prefer the kit lens over the 50mm f1.4?
Click to expand...

no ... just saying that I wasn't overly impressed by the canon 50mm f1.4 or the canon 50mm f1.8.
I like my vintage nikon 50 or the 50/1.2L or the Sigma 50. Probably the sigma 50mm will be my next purchase.

The canon 85mm however is one of my favorites and I posted a still I shot with it the other day
 
Last edited:
about microadjustment:

it allows you to calibrate each lens to your body, telling it "this one is focusing a bit farther than it should", "this one a bit closer", "this one a lot farther"; you can create up to 20 lens presets, and the camera will correct for these errors when focusing in stills mode

it's a must-have feature for anybody using autofocus in a reflex camera; the only other alternatives are to send your lens and body to canon so that they callibrate them for you, or to return one lens after the other until you get one that suits your camera (the errors in the lens and the body compensate each other); anything other than that is just being lucky, or focusing manually for anything important with shallow DoF

canon DSLRs that have this feature and also have video: 7D, 5Dmk2, 1Dmk4
the 50D had microadjustment, but the 60D doesn't

you can learn more about autofocus and microadjustment here:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/07/how-autofocus-often-works
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2008/12/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/03/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-facts
 
For your 85mm, I would definitely throw the Rokinon 85mm 1.4 into consideration. It's very sharp wide open and has a wonderful image. It is manual focus but it's also only $250 or so. Not a bad trade off.
 
This is a great thread, but I'm missing the usefulness of the 50 and 85mm lenses on an APS-C body. For me it's just way too much zoom to be useful, especially indoors.

I know this is asking alot, but might you guys be able to post samples of how each of the different focal lengths can be used. I know I would greatly appreciate seeing how to decide what lens to use for what type of shot. I'm pretty sure the OP might might appreciate it too. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words :)

Cheers,
Pete
 
I treat 50mm and 85mms as zoom lenses. There are times during a shoot where I need a tight shot in a low light situation and an 85mm 1.4 or 50mm 1.4 is perfect especially with a crop sensor camera. Obviously you want something alot wider for interiors which is why I would recommend the 17-50 Tamron as well. It's a work horse. I would agree that overall, vintage zooms can be a little disappointing with the exception of the Vivitar 70-210 3.5. The two I have are the ones made by Kiron and Tokina and they are relatively fast and very sharp wide open. They can go for under $100 and are a respectable alternative to the Canon 70-200 2.8 if cash is a little low.
 
Chris Watson said:
I treat 50mm and 85mms as zoom lenses. The two I have are the ones made by Kiron and Tokina and they are relatively fast and very sharp wide open. They can go for under $100 and are a respectable alternative to the Canon 70-200 2.8 if cash is a little low.
Click to expand...

He's perfeclty correct, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the (Nikon version) Tokina 80-200 f2.8 that I own; you can find it used for 400-800 dollars, depending on the year. Optically, it's not as sharp as the modern Canon 70-200 f2.8, has some barely noticeable CA, and doesn't have IS. But for video, it has no real flaws. It requires skill to shoot run & gun with it, though. If you can take your time, and have an external monitor, it's a flawless telephoto zoom.
 
c3hammer said:
This is a great thread, but I'm missing the usefulness of the 50 and 85mm lenses on an APS-C body. For me it's just way too much zoom to be useful, especially indoors.

I know this is asking alot, but might you guys be able to post samples of how each of the different focal lengths can be used. I know I would greatly appreciate seeing how to decide what lens to use for what type of shot. I'm pretty sure the OP might might appreciate it too. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words :)

Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...

I agree, 50 and 85 are studio lenses on APS-C.
 
I am definitely very grateful for all of the comments, and I'm glad the comments are generating a lot of discussion, but I am having a very hard time parsing all of this information down into even a hint of what I should purchase starting out.

I can clarify that I will not be shooting live events or documentaries. The camera will be for me to learn the ropes of photography and some small videography projects (in controlled situations), and get some experience with interchangeable lenses.

With all of that in mind, let me rephrase:

Let's assume that I would like one nice zoom lens and a few primes like steventimothy suggested. If you wouldn't mind linking to specific items on B&H that would be great!

****P.S. I will likely be purchasing purely off of recommendations since I don't really have a way to test lenses out first. I suppose I could rent some lenses, but I am really just looking for recommendations on what lens to get instead of the kit lens and then a few other lenses to experiment / tinker with until I am more informed.*****

Thanks!
 
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/423714-REG/Tamron_AF016C700_17_50mm_f_2_8_XR_Di.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12091-USA/Canon_2506A002_Wide_Angle_EF_24mm.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12140-USA/Canon_2515A003_50mm_f_1_4_USM_Autofocus.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12182-USA/Canon_2519A003_85mm_f_1_8_USM_Autofocus.html

www.leicashop.com
www.keh.com
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?LH_PrefLoc=2&_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A4726&rt=nc&_nkw=elmarit+35mm&_dmpt=Camera_Lenses&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=su...it+35mm&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=pa...on+50mm&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

(on the leitz lenses, make sure it's leica-R mount, i.e. elmarit-R and not elmarit-M, etc)
(for any vintage lenses, keep in mind that ebay is kind of a lottery: some lenses will arrive with aperture blades not working, most will have some dust inside, etc)
 
If you want to stick with Canon and you're on a medium budget:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/102851-USA/Canon_2510A003_Wide_Angle_EF_28mm.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12140-USA/Canon_2515A003_50mm_f_1_4_USM_Autofocus.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12182-USA/Canon_2519A003_85mm_f_1_8_USM_Autofocus.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/647013-USA/Canon_3560B002_EF_S_15_85mm_f_3_5_5_6_IS.html
OR if you really need more than 85mm (135mm ff equivalent)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/582444-USA/Canon_2752B002_EF_S_18_200mm_f_3_5_5_6_IS.html I like the first zoom 15-85 because it's much wider. If you need a long telephoto for something, just borrow one :)
That's about $2000 for everything.

OR if you're on a budget
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-Nikkor-35...97951840?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item4aab166660
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-Nikkor-50...mera_Lenses&hash=item45fa8012d4#ht_4014wt_932
http://cgi.ebay.com/Almost-Mint-Nik...era_Lenses&hash=item45fa933f66#ht_4266wt_1166

Plus the same Canon zoom as above. What can I say, I like Nikon. That's about $1200 there. Don't forget the $60 for the three Fotodiox adapters. http://cgi.ebay.com/Fotodiox-Nikon-...925?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad3059c5d

If money is no object, then get the Canon 24mm f1.4, the 50mm f1.2, and the 85mm f1.2. ($6-7,000 for all three) Those lenses arguably can match the best primes that money can buy. As a zoom, you'd probably want something like the 17-55 f2.8 IS and the tokina 11-16 f2.8. The 50 and the 85 are so good that sometimes pointing at anything, and pressing the shutter at random can create an award winning photo :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top