60d Audio low hiss in manual mode when mic is plugged in

R

Ronster

Well-known member
So I just got a 60d and was super excited about trying out the manual audio.

I noticed when I put it on you can control the manual settings and it allows you to take down the audio so things don't peak.

I plugged in my ME-64 and did some tests and found there is a hiss there. Not sure why.

The audio now off the camera sounds really solid but of course you are using that mediocre little mic in the camera. When I plugged in my ME-64 Sennheiser using a mini to xlr there is almost this low his noise. I also tried plugging in my Zoom H4N through the line out of the Zoom H4N into the 60d and same thing.

Any suggestions on what is going on here? Is it basically that the mini-jack is unbalanced? I'm not sure what to do here...I really thought I was going to get much better audio with the 60d?

Is the 5d different?

please help out with some suggestions

Ronster
 
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I think it's a known fact that the audio from the DSLRs won't be great for a very long time--if ever. I don't think the 5D MKII will be any different.

Your best bet will be to just mount the mic on the camera, record as backup/sync sound, and use the H4n as principle sound (which I think you have been doing). If you do want to get into the nitty-grittys of it all, you could the H4n though a Beachtek, set the levels on it higher, and set the levels on the 60D lower.
 
Timbit said:
I think it's a known fact that the audio from the DSLRs won't be great for a very long time--if ever. I don't think the 5D MKII will be any different.

Your best bet will be to just mount the mic on the camera, record as backup/sync sound, and use the H4n as principle sound (which I think you have been doing). If you do want to get into the nitty-grittys of it all, you could the H4n though a Beachtek, set the levels on it higher, and set the levels on the 60D lower.
Click to expand...

Timbit,

You are exactly right.

The 60d audio manually is so so. Which is a huge bummer. I thought for some reason the 60d and 5d could record solid audio. I have recorded audio through a mini-jack to xlr's on the sony Z1U (there are 2 versions of this camera one has xlr inputs and the other has mini-jack and I used the sony with the mini-jack). The audio even though it was coming off a mini-jack was still rock solid. So something in the Canon still camera body just doesn't have the ability to do this. Perhaps it is the preamp? I feel a beachtek is a waste of time here. Yeah you are controlling the levels but of mediocre audio. The zoom h4n is way better audio. I bought this as a supplement to my 7d. Basically as a B-Camera which is honestly great. but I really thought I was going to get solid audio. Not amazing but I thought it would be solid. It is just ok.

Here are some of my findings because I wish someone would have told me this. If you are on the fence here between the 7d and 60d I wouldn't say the audio should be a deciding factor because I don't feel this audio is that great on the 60d.

First off when you just go manual mode and use the internal 60d or 5d camera mic, which is a built in omni-directional mic, the audio is actually super solid and clean. The problem is if you go outdoors and it is windy or in a noisy environment then this mic just doesn't cut it. If you want to plug in a mic through the mini-jack that is where you will get into some problems.

Once you plug into that mini-jack you get this "hiss" noise. Basically there is something in the grounding or preamp on the camera body that can't handle a clean signal. It is usable I would say and if you put some filters on it you can clean it up or if you lay music under it again it is usuable. Especially for say internet stuff. Also just as b-roll audio and maybe stand up quick interviews it could work. I really was surprised how much cleaner the internal mic was over when I plugged a mic in through the mini-jack.

In terms of how you set audio on these cameras is also a pain. You can put the 60d in manual mode then set channel 1 and 2 levels. They are not independent. Meaning you can't adjust level 1 and level 2 separately. Both are married together so unless you have an outside mixer those two channels can't be adjusted independently. Also once you hit record you can't see your audio levels nor can you adjust them, again unless you have an outside mixer that also has the ability to show visually what is going on channel 1 and 2.

So all and all this audio upgrade from the 7d to the 60d and 5d is ok but it isn't anything to be that happy about. I think you could get away with some stand up interviews if you were running around doing stuff and for b-roll. But it is not good enough for sit down interviews or serious audio.

Ronster
 
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Well i get a slight hiss on my T2i/550D using my RSVM or my new AZDEN smx -10
 
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Ronster.

You have a Zoom H4, use that to record your audio.
best suggestion i can give is to not waste your time and efforts in trying to use the cameras audio for anything other than to sync your video to the recording done on the H4.
The reality of the matter is that Canon DSLR pre-amps .. well Suck a$$. don't waste your time with them if you have an H4.
and for the folks that dont have one, get one or any of the basic recorders, they will out-perform the Canon DSLR preamps by miles.
It still amazes me how much time and energy is spent on trying to use the built in audio on these cameras.
Especially when getting decent audio on a separate recorded is relatively inexpensive, they start at $89 bucks for the recorders, that's a no-brainer.
 
Carrying a separate audio setup about as well as all your kit when you film over distances is not realy an option,as long as there i sound to be heard the slight audio hiss/buzz is acceptable and its only noticable in quiet locations it has to be or stay using the cam.
 
A zoom H1 i about the bulk of a pack of cigarettes.... and will accept whatever input the camera would, only better performing, where the down side?
 
I'm with you...use the zoom h4n and use the camera audio as back up...that said the internal mic is not bad if the location is quiet....but I would use both and pick the best one....I guess I just don't want to sync my footage but I know I have to

Ronster
 
Resurrecting this thread...real-world application. Flying to Zambia next week. Decision made to use a 60D for customs ease entering country and for low weight and bulk (flying carry-on only) and for schlepping on location (no PA's or assistants and lots of pressure to setup and go quickly) I'd love to mount the Sennheiser MKE400 up top and record to camera, but no headphone jack, no live audio meters and the hiss are dealbreakers. So probably give up the shotgun capabilities and mount the H1 on the camera, with the ol' y-cable gag and add the wireless lav receiver to the H1 input when doing interviews.

In uncontrolled shooting docco situations, a slight increase in audio capability/quality/flexibility would make a huge positive difference.
 
AGC disable is the first step, but really you a hot feed going into the camera to get decent results without hissing. ML hack helps this even more with the manual control of digital vs analog gain.

I personally found that with the ML hack on the t2i, turning AGC off and turning up the analog gain to +10 or so, plus turning up the pre-amp on my sennheiser aw100 wireless lav receiver yielded results that sounded just as good as my DVX and other cams. The latest ML hack is apparently about to drop real-time headphone monitoring on the t2i as well... Its actually starting to look like the t2i is a better choice if on-camera audio is important. The ML hack is eventually going to the 60D (I think there is an alpha in the works), but right now there isn't much you can do. I say get a powered mic with its own preamp, or a separate preamp like a juicelink, and you might be able to get usable audio with the 60D as is.
Or, go external (I don't like this option either, but it works and you'll be able to monitor live which is important).
 
After studying this and a couple of other threads, my next test is to see if I can drive sufficient signal with the line level headphone output of the H1, via y-cable to the camera body. A horrifically awkward kludge with wires taped up everywhere. Was really hoping to avoid the expense and bulk of the Juicedlink adapter but if that works, too then may be worth the expense for having at least a somewhat tidier, more solid form factor.
 
Hey I just did some tests. Im using a rode video mic
directly into my 60d.
I threw the audio into audacity and chose the "noise removal" effect.
I put the settings to
noise reduction = 25
frequency smoothing = 770
attack/delay time = 0.10

and that worked pretty well for taking away the hiss for what i was doing. Surprisingly it worked much better than Soundtrack Pro.
Im sure you might have to adjust the settings slightly for what your doing.
 
I hate to be redundant because I've posted this in a few places now where it has been relevant, but here is a test I did comparing the in-camera mic of the 60D to an AT-875R mic powered by a separate Sound Devices MM-1 pre-amp and recording directly into the 60D.

You have to attenuate this line-level signal to take it to the mic-level input on the 60D, but then it's still hot enough that you can keep the 60D at the lowest audio level (one click above off) and use the gain on the pre-amp to control your sound. You don't have to use the same pre-amp as I did in my test; you can use a MixPre, various mixer/recorder combos like the Zoom H4N, etc. The point is that you need to send a hot enough signal to the camera that you can have the camera's audio at the LOWEST possible level in order to avoid the hiss of its noisy hardware.

http://vimeo.com/18491643

I think it proves that if you absolutely want to record the audio into the camera, it's possible to do it without suffering the hiss and the 60D is still a better choice for its audio features than the 7D.
 
Ditto

Ditto

Ditto nandreetta -

I plugged in my H4n, went all the way down to "1" in the 60d's manual audio setting, and it's ok.

I've been using the 7d for a little over a year now (getting sick of constantly syncing sound from my H4n, as well as the extra hassle of turning on audio, hitting record on camera, stopping the camera, stopping the audio...or forgetting to stop the audio. It's simply one more thing to worry about, another potentially "weak link"), so I bought a 60d, but there are a few things that BUG THE CRAP OUT OF ME on the 60d: the exposure settings in video mode don't transfer to still mode when you jump back and forth, so you can be at ISO 400 f/8 at 1/60th shooting video, switch over to stills and it's still set wherever you had it last time you were in that mode e.g. iso 1600 f/2.8 at 1/500th. WTF?! And, how frickin' hard would it be for Canon to put a toggle switch on there like the 7D has? As is, manual still mode is almost 360 degrees rotation from video mode, so no quick transitions here!

For highest quality/lowest hassle, I suggest independent audio from H4n (or other device), syncing with plural eyes software http://www.singularsoftware.com/pluraleyes.html right in your video editing software, and deleting the camera audio once you're synced. (plural eyes is also awesome for multi-camera workflow, btw).

Bottom line, stick with the 7d if you're concerned with quality. I wouldn't purchase the 60d if I had it to do over again. :thumbdown
 
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me too

me too

I'll share my $0.02.

With my RVMP, I'll send a +20 signal to the 60D. Turn the audio levels almost all the way down. The result is clean, crisp audio. (Of course, using my H4N produces much better audio, but I like just grabbing a mic in a bind)

I tried sticking a wired lav and recording. Got a HUGE hiss/hum. Got the hiss/hum with the audio levels turned down and with them turned up.

Not sure why.....
 
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