5D MrkIII vs BMCC

gonzo_entertainment said:
That hyper prime is m4/3 glass (nope, not interested, too limiting going forward) is $800 and isn't even out yet is it.
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It's $549 at Adorama and is currently available. Some people would prefer not to shoot with $45 and under lenses, in that case a Canon is either going to be $509 (thought with a $60 rebate at the moment) for the 28mm f/1.8 or, more likely, the 24mm f/1.4 L series at $1600.

You know, all of this info is just a quick Google search away. Why do you insist on trying to insuinate or directly spread FUD without doing a quick check to make sure what you're saying has some merit?
 
simonpwood said:
Yeah, I worded it badly I guess. Yeah, the BMC will certainly produce a better image under all conditions.

However, there would be circumstances when you might find that the 5DMK3 might be better choice; probably in less controlled situations (where you have no control of light), where you are filming discretely in public, where you will need to be filming for long periods (lots of media and batteries in your pockets), where basic weather sealing might be an issue etc. Or where a fast turn around in post is needed. Most of those situations, by default, seem to be examples where you might be in varying conditions beyond your control.

I mainly film documentary style work, and often in outdoor conditions in Africa where the camera is subject to all sorts of weather and dust, and where the authorities often take interest in anything professional looking (so its often better to be discrete).

I'm in the market for a new camera and I took a long hard look at the BMC - and I love the look of the image coming out of it. But in the end I realized it was too much camera for me; and the main factor in deciding this was the often uncontrolled nature of the films I am involved with I guess.
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This seems counter intuitive to me. There is so much more latitude for image recovery and manipulation with a raw camera than with H.264 video from a DSLR. The stealth part I understand, but shooting in uncontrolled lighting conditions I'll take raw any day. If you don't pretty much nail your video out of the camera for exposure and color balance with H.264 you are screwed.
 
Razz16mm said:
This seems counter intuitive to me. There is so much more latitude for image recovery and manipulation with a raw camera than with H.264 video from a DSLR. The stealth part I understand, but shooting in uncontrolled lighting conditions I'll take raw any day. If you don't pretty much nail your video out of the camera for exposure and color balance with H.264 you are screwed.
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Maybe so, yeah. But I mean most everyone I know has been shooting DSLR's for the last few years, and everyone has been managing well enough without RAW during that time. Other than RED cameras, no one has really had that latitude with RAW, going back to HDV cameras, Betacams, and even film. Generally I just get the basic look in the camera and go from there (the idea of fixing it in post used to be frowned upon - the idea was always to get the exposure and color balance and all the settings right in the camera the first time).

With regards to light I guess I mean low light; the FF sensor still seems to come out on top in that case.

Probably the idea of storage of all that RAW data is also a deciding factor for me - I just wouldn't have the room for it when I am working in remote locations. For me I reckon the BMC would not be suitable; but perhaps I am in an unusual scenario. I fully acknowledge that the BMC is making better images than the DSLR's ever managed.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
The Vincent Laforet review led me to believe it was smaller than m4/3 and that S16 cinema glass would vignette on it.
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That is correct. Bigger than S16, smaller than m4/3. So S16 lenses will vignette because the BMC's sensor is bigger than S16. But it's smaller than m43.

S16 = 12.4mm wide. BMC = 15.6mm wide. m43 = 17.3mm wide (or 17.8 on the AF100, or 18.8 on the GH1/GH2).
 
Other than lenses there hasn't been much discussion about cost. Here's a basic breakdown to get each camera up to useable standard for narrative filmmaking excluding the identical kit you will need for both-

$3460 5DMKIII body
$360 z-finder
$120 2x spare batteries
$80 2x 16Gb Lexar 400x CF cards
$4020

$3000 BMCC
$760 Zacuto EVF
$500-$1000 external battery solution
$100 2x 30Gb SSDs
$4360-$4860

The price guide is for 60min ProRes recording on the BMCC and roughly 60min H.264 on the MKIII. If you want to shoot RAW then you will most likely have to invest in a faster computer, more hard drives, and larger SSD drives so I would imagine at least another $1500 added to the cost (probably more).

I haven't done a costing for lenses but I would expect a comparable lens kit for the BMCC to cost at least 50% more than a lens kit for the MKIII. L lenses don't enter into my equation here because there is so much great quality glass available that's much cheaper and far better suited to cine use. So lets say you spend $3000 on a Nikon ai prime lens kit for the MKIII, add another $1500 for a comparable quality kit for the BMCC reflecting the additional cost of good quality ultra-wides.

Final approx cost
$7020 5D MKIII
$8860-$9360 BMCC ProRes
$10360-$10860 BMCC RAW

You do get Davinci Resolve with the BMCC which is a big plus.

If you don't agree with these estimates you're free to do your own costing. The BMCC is very much in the C100/F700 price bracket rather than the full frame DSLR price bracket.
 
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squig said:
Other than lenses there hasn't been much discussion about cost. Here's a basic breakdown to get each camera up to useable standard for narrative filmmaking excluding the identical kit you will need for both-

$3460 5DMKIII body
$360 z-finder
$120 2x spare batteries
$80 2x 16Gb Lexar 400x CF cards
$4020

$3000 BMCC
$760 Zacuto EVF
$500-$1000 external battery solution
$100 2x 30Gb SSDs
$4360-$4860

The price guide is for 60min ProRes recording on the BMCC and roughly 60min H.264 on the MKIII. If you want to shoot RAW then you will most likely have to invest in a faster computer, more hard drives, and larger SSD drives so I would imagine at least another $1500 added to the cost (probably more).

I haven't done a costing for lenses but I would expect a comparable lens kit for the BMCC to cost at least 50% more than a lens kit for the MKIII. L lenses don't enter into my equation here because there is so much great quality glass available that's much cheaper and far better suited to cine use. So lets say you spend $3000 on a Nikon ai prime lens kit for the MKIII, add another $1500 for a comparable quality kit for the BMCC reflecting the additional cost of good quality ultra-wides.

Final approx cost
$7020 5D MKIII
$8860-$9360 BMCC ProRes
$10360-$10860 BMCC RAW

You do get Davinci Resolve with the BMCC which is a big plus.

If you don't agree with these estimates you're free to do your own costing. The BMCC is very much in the C100/F700 price bracket rather than the full frame DSLR price bracket.
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$3000 for Nikors! I have the 24,28,35 50, 85, and 135 all F2 or F/2.8 and I spent about $1600 for the set...

I do agree though. People that think the BMC is going to cost just $3000 are nuts. My figures without optics were between $9k and $11k for proper shooting and support (SSD, Home base HD, rigging, and computer upgrades). I'm leaning C100 with Atomos but waiting to see more footage.
 
dustylense said:
$3000 for Nikors! I have the 24,28,35 50, 85, and 135 all F2 or F/2.8 and I spent about $1600 for the set...
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Add a 17mm Tokina ATX-pro, a 20mm, a 180mm, adapters, gears, and it's $3000.

The C100 with a ninja is certainly a contender in that price bracket. I'm hopeful that Magic Lantern will unleash the true potential of the MKIII and I'll only need to spend money on a ninja or faster CF cards.
 
squig said:
Add a 17mm Tokina ATX-pro, a 20mm, a 180mm, adapters, gears, and it's $3000.

The C100 with a ninja is certainly a contender in that price bracket. I'm hopeful that Magic Lantern will unleash the true potential of the MKIII and I'll only need to spend money on a ninja or faster CF cards.
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What do I need that 17 tokina for when I already have the Canon 17 TSE :)
Pretty much have all glass from Canon ranging from 16mm to 400mm.

I really don't consider Glass as part of the camera investment. Glass is the investment in itself.

I do hope the C100 comes to it's senses and offers 720/60. I know we could get away with 1080/60i for slowmo. Or just use another camera for special slo-mo shots. Regardless, I'm gonna shoot with what I have for now and see what might happen in in 4-6 months. People that ordered the BMC in June might not even see their camera for that long the way it's going. My cameras are still making money and I don't have any plans to shoot the next superhero movie for 3000 screen release anyway.

I like what BMD has done, but man would I hate to be in their shoes right now.

Yeah, Magic lantern on the Mk3 will hopefully open it up a bit. Even as it is, I still find things to film with it. Too many cameras to choose from and my head is spinning when I should just be shooting. Hell, I'm still hoping for an Af200 with new sensor and 422 10/bit.

Hell Squig, you're in Sydney. You should be able to go to BMD and kick in the door and demand a BMC!
 
squig said:
Other than lenses there hasn't been much discussion about cost. Here's a basic breakdown to get each camera up to useable standard for narrative filmmaking excluding the identical kit you will need for both-

$3460 5DMKIII body
$360 z-finder
$120 2x spare batteries
$80 2x 16Gb Lexar 400x CF cards
$4020

$3000 BMCC
$760 Zacuto EVF
$500-$1000 external battery solution
$100 2x 30Gb SSDs
$4360-$4860
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I guess this quote could be done with the new Canon 6D too assuming that the image quality for 6d/5d3 are comparable (and you are willing to give up the headphone jack).

In which case the FF 6d package would be $2739. It remains to be seen if the 6d and 5d3 produce the same image (and moire / rolling shutter).
 
simonpwood said:
I guess this quote could be done with the new Canon 6D too assuming that the image quality for 6d/5d3 are comparable (and you are willing to give up the headphone jack).
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If the image quality between the 6D/5D3 was the same, I think the 6D would be a better deal. We've been working with headphone jack-less cameras for some time now, and it's a manageable workflow with dual-system audio. Unless the pre-amps in the 5D3 make it ideal for recording directly into the camera, I don't see how that would be worth the price difference.
 
A lot of the comparison-purposes math here is a little irrelevant... it seems like a lot of DSLR gear is easily repurposed for the BMC; from the research I've done, everything I use with my DSLR looks like an easy fit. My needs would primarily be going a little wider lens-wise, a power solution, and looking into something that does 1/4 TRS to XLR with phantom - but that's likely the 1st BMC accessory we'll see hit the streets. I posted a design on BMCUser that handled connector conversion (you don't need transformers) and power distribution.

The fact that the BMC has balanced, manual audio is a huge plus over DSLRs; the lack of 60p may keep me hesitant though, I seem to use it a lot.
 
And for those of us already shooting on m4/3s cameras (GH2 or AF100), the need for wider lenses is practically already accomplished as well.
 
If the video quality of the 6D is similar to the 5D3 then it will be the perfect B & C cam to the 5D3 at 2/3 of the price including built in WiFi for remote control by iPad/iPhone.
 
Wow, the 6D footage looks amazing.

I also noticed that the 6D has a higher native ISO compared to the 5DIII(51,200 Iso on the 6D vs 25,600 ISO on the 5D). Will be interesting to see if the 6D is just as good in low light as the 5DIII or maybe a touch better.
 
It does look good. That's down to a good shooter as well. One thing to note though, is that there was a lot of tripod shots. Stability goes a long way to making something look good.
 
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