Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
The thing about RED footage is that once you downscale to 1080 it really doesn't need sharpening. Especially 4kHD to 1080HD. Just sharp as a tack.
5D MKIII specs
- Thread starter squig
- Start date
squig
Veteran
LOL "old guy" I'm only 41.
I'm actually kinda liking being the "old guy"now. Except when I get on my bike.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
you're anything but the oldest guy here, young feller...
squig
Veteran
I expect it would look really nice but with the C-DSLR around the corner I wouldn't be in a hurry to get one for the price unless you're a big stills shooter.
My car broke down the other day and I had to ride a bike to the rental place. Talk about out of shape... It felt like I was trying to make electricity for a small village.
Again, my test was a comparative test with a downsampled hi-res still. We'd have to compare GH2 material using the same steps. I don't have full resolution ISO 12223 chart, though I might be able to print 3 sheets and get something usable.
Here are the images again, bicubic-sharper downscaled to be at about the same resolution if having used the 16:9 frame (75%):
Downsampled still:
Video:
Still higher than the GH2 but not 800-900 anymore. Note the that 'ideal' downsampled still also dropped accordingly. That's why a relative test might be more helpful vs. just looking at each by themselves. I'm estimating the 5D3 video is about 100 lines less than the ideal downsampled still, which would be "1000+" lines that camera manufacturers report for their high-end cameras. So, sticking with my original estimate of 800-900 lines for video. The same reference still/video test for the GH2 (and other cameras) would be useful. It's hard to estimate performance with just the chart test: I find the reference still to be very helpful in understanding actual performance.
Reference-based Resolution Test Steps:
1. Get the ISO 12223 chart and print with a laser printer so that the 4:3 area is fully visible and not aliased (kind of blows the test if you chart is already aliased)
2. Take a still frame framed on the chart 4:3 (left/right markers)
3. Record a video clip framed the same way
From the original test, you can clearly see black-white lines on the still up to 10. That's pretty much what I would expect and at the limit of what is possible. We can evaluate the corresponding video frame the same way.
All of the 5D3 footage posted to date does indeed look soft compared to the GH2 and other cameras. The Veyron and Brick Wall tests are as sharp or sharper than all the GH2 clips I have viewed on youtube and vimeo. When considering the EOSHD bear test and your resolution chart example, it does appear the 5D3 post-sharpened is a bit sharper than the GH2 (which has built-in sharpening that cannot be fully disabled). It's not really a contest; interesting to study; both cameras produce excellent quality.
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squig
Veteran
Just old enough to know I know nothing.
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
But seriously, any mathematically minded folks here to say if 2.7 off full frame is close to super 16?
edit: thanks. So could the D4 become the 2/3s scarlet we were waiting for (a little more costly)?
edit: thanks. So could the D4 become the 2/3s scarlet we were waiting for (a little more costly)?
This is sorta what I was talking about, as well. And, I was right, I'm interchanging my phrase (still, even after so many years) and that's where the confusion came from. Sharp and resolute exist on two different planes, so when I say 5K is plenty sharp for me, I am pretty much saying that it's resolute as all get out. So at 5K, yeah, it may be soft to some. It isn't to me, but to some yeah it may very well be.
First time I've seen crop footage from the D4, looks pretty a-okay. Also makes me seriously think that you just won't be able to get pristine Full Frame or APS-C 1080 out of these things without an external option that gives you the closest to raw data output afforded by the hardware, and then doing your own post processing to move it to 1080/2K.
I'm curious just how much more resolute the C300 could be if it kicked out a 4K image through some proprietary pipeline versus what's being done in camera. Although the C300 is pretty sick as is. Loads of detail even after denoising at High ISOs.
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Lammy
Well-known member
Thanks jcs. I'll actually get around to doing a chart (stills and video and equivalent lenses/lighting) with the 5D3 and other cameras sometime soon. You're right, it's not too as useful without a still as comparison or an all equal setup.
I really want to play on the 5D3 and try different sharpening techniques (pushing it as far without looking too processed) under my own shooting style. Only thing I'm worrying about is the compression and grain aesthetics.
I really want to play on the 5D3 and try different sharpening techniques (pushing it as far without looking too processed) under my own shooting style. Only thing I'm worrying about is the compression and grain aesthetics.
squig
Veteran
It's taken me 2 hours to catch up with all the MKIII posts from 2 forums....my head is spinning.
The other key topic being discussed is noise in the shadows particularly with the ALL-I codec. I'm not sure yet if there's any issues with IPB, I've posted some questions....I need my MKIII!
Stu and Dan Chung have been looking into gamma shift transcoding issues, I haven't had the time to keep up with that for a couple of days.
The other key topic being discussed is noise in the shadows particularly with the ALL-I codec. I'm not sure yet if there's any issues with IPB, I've posted some questions....I need my MKIII!
Stu and Dan Chung have been looking into gamma shift transcoding issues, I haven't had the time to keep up with that for a couple of days.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
To your point, this one is also really worth looking at: http://vimeo.com/39133762
2.7 crop is tight.
squig
Veteran
Some frames of grain I've been using with my MKII work
https://rapidshare.com/#!download|2...159354|R~F1B16B98BFC2A7A287C5707015CFFAF1|0|0
I loop a bunch of frames, add a layer in FCP, and mess with the opacity to taste.
https://rapidshare.com/#!download|2...159354|R~F1B16B98BFC2A7A287C5707015CFFAF1|0|0
I loop a bunch of frames, add a layer in FCP, and mess with the opacity to taste.
dustylense
Veteran
Squig,
I think the I-frame issue is computer hardware related. Maybe. I'm not seeing it on multiple TV's I have. I do hope that we can convince Canon to firmware update for an option of CBR I-frame though. I'm shooting all my little tests using I-frame and I'm just not seeing the issues reported. It's still really early with this camera guys. Lots of info will come from users and the camera gets into hands. But so far, I'm a fan of this camera.
squig
Veteran
Cool, I'll try to keep track of what's going on. Don't have my camera yet but I used to be a software support analyst and problem manager so I'm going spend a bit of time trying to collect data from the various sources and share it here. Yes CBR would be a much better option and I'm going to feed that back to Canon as I'm sure others will too. I"m hopeful that the magic lantern lads will come to the rescue and we'll have 150Mbit/s+ CBR ALL-I....and zebras....and cropmarks...and...coffee!
2.7 looks incredibut. Thanks for the link. Hmm... how would you get 4/5K out of a DSLR?
Not even a real question... too much thinking required.
Jay Rodriguez
Coffee Member
lol Kholi WHAT UP! Long time my friend..... I just got into biking (trails and such) and my legs have been virtually useless for a week.
Back on topic, I picked up a mk iii a few days ago. Today was my first time really playing with it outside and I was actually impressed. I'm not pixel watcher or anything though as I typically try to view footage as a "movie go'er" and not necessarily as a professional cinematographer. Otherwise, I'll go absolutely insane because I can only afford sub $10K cameras but yet still find things I don't like about sub $50k cameras. The mk iii obviously isn't the best choice for a feature but for what I do, usually music videos targeted for web, the mk iii suits the project just fine. I usually shoot good material only to fu@k it up in post with grunge like effects and weird color palettes anyway lol. With all that said I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Scarlet and if for any reason decide not to buy it then I might consider a low budget feature shot with the mk iii. One things for sure, I'm going to Australia in April with Diddy, Rick Ross, Chris Brown, Naughty by Nature and more celebs to shoot content for a Reality pilot and it'll all be shot on mk iii's