5D / 7D - Full Frame vs. 1.6x - Pros and Cons

I'm still confused as to what lenses are or are not going to work well with the 7D.

I have a box full of Nikkor primes and I'm worried they'll be (nearly) useless with it.
 
Barry_Green said:
that would be the premium bomb-diggity.
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Now you're speaking my language. Hah! Thanks for the clarification.

This is probably jumping the shark a bit, but I just had oral surgery so I have nothing else to think about.... do you think the native ISO of the 7D will be 160 as well? Or do we just have to wait and see?
 
Barry_Green said:
Now, a 3K sensor at APS-C size... that would be the premium bomb-diggity. Ultimate sensitivity, ultimate resolution, movie-film-style DOF, miniscule noise, maximum latitude, and massive 61-micron pixels... now you're talking!
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As a RED fan, I hate to say this, but I wish that RED would release just such a product. I understand why resolution is important to them, but they should make the option available to filmmakers who work in HD, rather than in 4K+.
 
ydgmdlu said:
However, bear in mind that Canon claims that the pixels on the 7D are closer together, which means that they could still be comparable in size to the 5D's.
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Hmmm, I hadn't heard that claim. Interesting.

Presumably this means that the "registers" between the pixels are smaller on the 7D than the 5D? Interesting... but I doubt the register size is all that big on 18-micron pixels. That would make a huge difference to something like an HMC40, maybe. But heck, it's gotta help, and this is the kind of "all other things being equal" stuff that complicates solving questions like this with simple math!
 
Mirezzi said:
I'm still confused as to what lenses are or are not going to work well with the 7D.

I have a box full of Nikkor primes and I'm worried they'll be (nearly) useless with it.
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To quote myself.... http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1734080#post1734080
I've been using Nikon lenses no problem on my Canon 30D (the great grandfather to the 7D).

I bought 2 adapters from eBay user "buyitjnow" and will soon be buying more. They ship from China, so it takes some time. I had to put a piece of gaff tape between the lens and the adapter to prevent slipping, and I recommend getting each lens its own adapter.

http://myworld.ebay.com/buyitjnow
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__________________
 
"I'm still confused as to what lenses are or are not going to work well with the 7D.

I have a box full of Nikkor primes and I'm worried they'll be (nearly) useless with it. "

What do you mean by well? They are photo lenses designed for much higher quality resolution than HD can ever provide so just use them all. The only thing to consider is the crop factor and what field of view you lose on a APS-C camera versus a full-frame camera.
 
Mirezzi said:
I'm still confused as to what lenses are or are not going to work well with the 7D.

I have a box full of Nikkor primes and I'm worried they'll be (nearly) useless with it.
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As I said in another thread:

ydgmdlu said:
Off the top of my head, the only SLR lenses that don't work are Canon FD mount and Minolta mounts. Nikon, Pentax, M42, Olympus, and more all work fine. I have a 5D, and I actually have lenses in all four of those mounts for it, plus a Pentacon 6 (medium format) mount. And every one of my lenses has its own adapter.
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KeithAndrews.TV said:
Considering this is a forum based around video production, I would have to disagree that it would be worth the extra money to use faster EF lenses on an APS-C camera. Although the edges of a lens are traditionally the weakest, you would need a lot more detail than what HD can resolve in order to see that loss. It's a great idea for still photography shooting 5k res, but you wouldn't see the difference in HD.
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This is what I originally thought as well because When i take a 21MP image using a soft lens on my 5D and downrez it to HD its as sharp as I could ever want it. However, lenses do in fact make a difference when you are shooting video on these cameras because of the bayer interpolation at the pixel level. It isn't a 21MP image being dowrezed its pixels being skipped. You will definitly notice a differnce between good and bad quality glass, wide open apertures and closed ones and even lens edges.

KeithAndrews.TV said:
Also, you have to pick your battles. You either gain light sensitivity and lose field of view from the crop, or you keep the original field of view intended and maybe have a slower lens. It would really depend on what lenses you were comparing.
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Why not just buy a 50mm lens if you were looking for a 85mm full frame equivelent? You get the FOV you want and you can get the EF lens.
 
ydgmdlu said:
As a RED fan, I hate to say this, but I wish that RED would release just such a product. I understand why resolution is important to them, but they should make the option available to filmmakers who work in HD, rather than in 4K+.
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Y'know what? That is a brilliant idea. That's a way that Red could compete with the DSLRs and hand them their own *** at the same time. Forget the 3K/4K/5K/6K race, just make the most jaw-droppingly awesome 1080p/2K...

I imagine that'd mean starting over with a new sensor, but yeah, I would TOTALLY buy that Scarlet!

That'd be huge, and it'd give them a mile-wide gulf between the Red One, Epic, and Scarlet too. Red One/Epic for 4K/5K/6K etc, Scarlet for killer 2K with maximum sharpness and massively awesome noise/sensitivity/latitude performance. I'd buy that!
 
Barry_Green said:
Hmmm, I hadn't heard that claim. Interesting.

Presumably this means that the "registers" between the pixels are smaller on the 7D than the 5D? Interesting... but I doubt the register size is all that big on 18-micron pixels. That would make a huge difference to something like an HMC40, maybe. But heck, it's gotta help, and this is the kind of "all other things being equal" stuff that complicates solving questions like this with simple math!
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This is from Digital Photography Review's preview of the camera: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page3.asp

The EOS 7D sports a new 18 MP APS-C CMOS sensor which is an in-house development. Canon claims the sensor delivers an improved signal to noise ratio which is achieved through a new photodiode and microlens design. The EOS 7D's sensor features the gapless microlenses that we first saw on the EOS 50D but on the new model the distance between microlenses and photodiodes has been reduced which results in the light being more easily focused onto the photodiode.
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Barry_Green said:
Y'know what? That is a brilliant idea. That's a way that Red could compete with the DSLRs and hand them their own *** at the same time. Forget the 3K/4K/5K/6K race, just make the most jaw-droppingly awesome 1080p/2K...

I imagine that'd mean starting over with a new sensor, but yeah, I would TOTALLY buy that Scarlet!

That'd be huge, and it'd give them a mile-wide gulf between the Red One, Epic, and Scarlet too. Red One/Epic for 4K/5K/6K etc, Scarlet for killer 2K with maximum sharpness and massively awesome noise/sensitivity/latitude performance. I'd buy that!
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Hah. I bet they nix the Scarlet and Epic and tomorrow they announce the "Skeptic," a camera that has no specs, no release date, and no intention of being more than a 3D render.

/end thread crapping
 
egproductions said:
This is what I originally thought as well because When i take a 21MP image using a soft lens on my 5D and downrez it to HD its as sharp as I could ever want it. However, lenses do in fact make a difference when you are shooting video on these cameras because of the bayer interpolation at the pixel level. It isn't a 21MP image being dowrezed its pixels being skipped. You will definitly notice a differnce between good and bad quality glass, wide open apertures and closed ones and even lens edges.



Why not just buy a 50mm lens if you were looking for a 85mm full frame equivelent? You get the FOV you want and you can get the EF lens.
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Well of course there are exceptions to the rule. Where people get burned is when they take their collection of EF lenses, like the 24-70mm, and put it onto an APS-C size camera. Obviously if you know what FOV you want on you APS-C camera and then go out and buy an EF lens with comparable FOV for that camera then you are all set, but it will definitely cost you more than the equivilent EF-S lenses. Not saying you can't match the FOV with a 7D to that of a 5D Mark II, I am just saying using the more expensive EF lenses, is well....more expensive. How about we agree to just rent!
 
Taylor Rudd said:
Hah. I bet they nix the Scarlet and Epic and tomorrow they announce the "Skeptic," a camera that has no specs, no release date, and no intention of being more than a 3D render.

/end thread crapping
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LMFAO!!!! Just so everyone is paying attention, I didn't say it! We didnt pm each other, we weren't seperated at birth, this is just a very common feeling people have about RED because of the way the choose to run their hype machine.
:dankk2: Taylor
 
KeithAndrews.TV said:
Well of course there are exceptions to the rule. Where people get burned is when they take their collection of EF lenses, like the 24-70mm, and put it onto an APS-C size camera. Obviously if you know what FOV you want on you APS-C camera and then go out and buy an EF lens with comparable FOV for that camera then you are all set, but it will definitely cost you more than the equivilent EF-S lenses. Not saying you can't match the FOV with a 7D to that of a 5D Mark II, I am just saying using the more expensive EF lenses, is well....more expensive. How about we agree to just rent!
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I might buy a toy lens, like the Tokina 12-24, to satisfy my super wide tastes. Otherwise I'll be sticking with L glass or my existing Nikon prime collection (28, 35, 50, 85, 135, 300).

I wouldn't say people get burned on APS-C bodies. They should know what they are getting into. L glass holds its value big time. I bought my 17-40 f/4L used for just under $600 a few years ago and could sell it for just that much today. I would never invest too much in APS-C specific lenses...what happens when Canon releases a killer 1.3x crop body that blows the 7D out of the water? EF-S will be worthless, at least wide open.

Buy well, buy once.
 
KeithAndrews.TV said:
Well of course there are exceptions to the rule. Where people get burned is when they take their collection of EF lenses, like the 24-70mm, and put it onto an APS-C size camera. Obviously if you know what FOV you want on you APS-C camera and then go out and buy an EF lens with comparable FOV for that camera then you are all set, but it will definitely cost you more than the equivilent EF-S lenses. Not saying you can't match the FOV with a 7D to that of a 5D Mark II, I am just saying using the more expensive EF lenses, is well....more expensive. How about we agree to just rent!
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The best lenses I use are cheap enough to buy. I have the 24-70L but to be honest I enjoy shooting with my 50 1.8 and 100 2.8 more. The 100 is the sharpest lens I've ever used.

It's all a moot point for me. I have the 5D II and have no regrets.
 
Barry, I could not help notice that you jumped to buy the 7D as soon as it was announced (I did too) can you fill us in what features (hopes) made you place the order?




Barry_Green said:
Okay, I love Red and what they're doing, but I must admit that you just caused a genuine spit-take with that line. :D
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aalleexx said:
Barry, I could not help notice that you jumped to buy the 7D as soon as it was announced (I did too) can you fill us in what features (hopes) made you place the order?
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Same things that made me buy a GH1 -- hopefully superb 1080/24p with no need to use an adapter.

I love the GH1, but if the 7D does the same job and better, I'll be happy with it too. The 7D offers a few promising tidbits, such as 1080/24p with no need to remove pulldown, and a higher-bitrate codec.

I also like the idea of having 1080/30p and 720/50p as mild and moderate slow-mo options.

On the downside, it sounds like it's going to have aliasing and jello issues, which the GH1 just doesn't have.

In the end I expect that they'll end up being two different and comparable tools. And they're both so ridiculously cheap it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to not have both.

I bought a D90 early on, and I found it basically unusable (others are free to disagree, etc...) I gave it to my daughter to use for her nascent wedding photography business.

I was never in the slightest bit tempted by the EOS 5D Mark II, 30p workarounds were ridiculous and it's way more expensive, and the no-manual-control thing (at the time) made it more a pain in the butt than it was worth.

The GH1 was (and is) the nearly-perfect storm. If it wasn't for the codec occasionally puking, and the unfathomable exclusion of 24pN recording, and no live monitoring, I'd say it's The New DVX. In fact, at $1500 including lens, it might very well still be.

So along comes Canon, promising to fix the codec and adding 24pN and live monitoring. Very promising. I just hope that the jello and aliasing aren't showstoppers.

Right now I'm still very happy with the GH1, with the only real annoyance being the necessity of using NeoScene to remove the pulldown.
 
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