550D/GH13 comparision shot

Kholi said:
That's not even pixel-peeping, just glancing at it, it looks it just cannot resolve real detail.
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Absolutely! It's true with Barry's blind taste test and it's true with the random clips in the GH13 Footy forum (how much better the Gh13 is resolution wise).
I think people are so enamored with super shallow DoF close up shots of rack focusing between the TV remote and a dog's butt that they forgot have HORRIFIC DSLRS have been at resolving detail in wide deep focus shots. Until the GH13, it just wasn't possible to get anything usable (by my taste anyway). If I did a wide/establishing shot, it was gonna be a locked down frame that stayed on screen for maybe 1.5-2 seconds then immediatly moved to mids and closes before the average viewer felt like the production value was circling the drain. Now the average person couldn't tell you why they love super shallow DoF shots and equate it to higher production value, but they do. I've thrown out tons of wide shots from things I've directed because the client or test audience felt they looked cheap compared to those tight shallow focus shots. BUT NOW FINALLY there's a way to start putting wider, deeper focus shots in my work, I'm excited! I feel like I've been on a low carb diet since the 7D (HDSLRs in general) came out and finally get to eat a big bowl of spaghetti whenever I feel like it.
 
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Rakesh Jacob said:
Absolutely! It's true with Barry's blind taste test and it's true with the random clips in the GH13 Footy forum (how much better the Gh13 is resolution wise).
I think people are so enamored with super shallow DoF close up shots of rack focusing between the TV remote and a dog's butt that they forgot have HORRIFIC DSLRS have been at resolving detail in wide deep focus shots. Until the GH13, it just wasn't possible to get anything usable (by my taste anyway). If I did a wide/establishing shot, it was gonna be a locked down frame that stayed on screen for maybe 1.5-2 seconds then immediatly moved to mids and closes before the average viewer felt like the production value was circling the drain. Now the average person couldn't tell you why they love super shallow DoF shots and equate it to higher production value, but they do. I've thrown out tons of wide shots from things I've directed because the client or test audience felt they looked cheap compared to those tight shallow focus shots. BUT NOW FINALLY there's a way to start putting wider, deeper focus shots in my work, I'm excited! I feel like I've been on a low carb diet since the 7D (HDSLRs in general) came out and finally get to eat a big bowl of spaghetti whenever I feel like it.
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dang. Exactly what I was thinking.
 
plasmasmp said:
I got my GH1 2 days ago, did not expect it to really compare to the 7D/5D or t2i. I was really wrong. The Canon 1080p video mode is closer to the GH1's 720p mode, which was quite shocking. Here's a quick still from a comparison I was doing of the two cameras.

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Very nice.

What's interesting in this comparison is in the wood that's running horizontally that supports the roof you can still make out the grain of the wood in the 7D shot, yet you can't in the GH13 shot. Same with the tin metal under the roof. It's breaking apart in the GH13 shot. Why is that?

Is it the focus, is it too dark? Is it just me?

The rest of the shot is much more detailed in the GH13 pic. Especially that reflection in the mirror.

MAH
 
plasmasmp said:
I got my GH1 2 days ago, did not expect it to really compare to the 7D/5D or t2i. I was really wrong. The Canon 1080p video mode is closer to the GH1's 720p mode, which was quite shocking. Here's a quick still from a comparison I was doing of the two cameras.

http://img697.imageshack.us/i/gh1vs7d.jpg/
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Hmm...thanks for that comparison. I'm now wondring if the claims about the Canons uprezzing their image from SD is true? If so....maybe that could be a firmware hack/fix.
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
Very nice.

What's interesting in this comparison is in the wood that's running horizontally that supports the roof you can still make out the grain of the wood in the 7D shot, yet you can't in the GH13 shot. Same with the tin metal under the roof. It's breaking apart in the GH13 shot. Why is that?

Is it the focus, is it too dark? Is it just me?

The rest of the shot is much more detailed in the GH13 pic. Especially that reflection in the mirror.

MAH
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I might be wrong...but if I remember correctly it was mentioned from those test charts months ago that the 7D's horizontal resolution was better. But the vertical was a no contest.
 
So I did load up comparison A and B into photoshop and played with them. I am pretty confident that A is the 7D after looking even deeper into the pixels. It is interesting to play with the saturation and contrast and look at how the colors fall apart in both images rather quickly.

I also played with the sharpening of the 7D and while I could get it to sharpen more, it was never as sharp as the GH13 trees in the background. After looking closer at the trees, it looks like the H.264 compression is destroying the detail. This is pretty consistent with all the testing I have done with how Canon's implementation handles fine detail.

In the foreground, I was pretty happy with both cameras. For deep focus, the 7D just does not handle well.

I will also say, some of the compression from the GH13 was pretty undesirable as well, especially in pieces of the bridge. I also notice from everyones shots that I have seen that the GH13 is almost always a little more yellowish and that the 7D always looks a little desaturated. Heh, the Canon "Look".

I will also say again that the image from the mystery camera for deep focus is always nicer. I think this is a good illustration of having a better deep focus camera can really help the image quality if you are doing an A and B (or more) camera setup.

Also, this makes me VERY hopeful for the AF-100.

Barry, thanks for shooting those shots. Photoshop is a REAL eye opener when pixel peeping. Fascinating times these are.
 
Ian-T said:
Hmm...thanks for that comparison. I'm now wondring if the claims about the Canons uprezzing their image from SD is true? If so....maybe that could be a firmware hack/fix.
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Given how HORRIBLE 720p mode is in the Canon, I don't think so as if they were upconverting, 720p mode would be better than 1080p mode in my opinion.
 
+1 I must agree that the Canon does not do very good on the wide shots, but since I actually shoot medium to up close it's a problem that I rarely encounter. One thing I do not like about these Hacked Gh1 shots though is it seems like a weird haze/bloom effect is on all of the images, looks very unnatural to me.
 
Cieloent said:
...but since I actually shoot medium to up close it's a problem that I rarely encounter.
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Yeah I totaly feel you on that. I'm definitly a mid-close type of shooter and rarely do wides and I also love shallow DoF, to a fault. Man but some times you just have to have a wide deep focus shot and I'm tired of feeling limited. I'm looking forward to expanding my cinematography repertoire. Now with the GH13 and soon with whatever Canon has in the lab :)
 
Cieloent said:
+1 I must agree that the Canon does not do very good on the wide shots, but since I actually shoot medium to up close it's a problem that I rarely encounter. One thing I do not like about these Hacked Gh1 shots though is it seems like a weird haze/bloom effect is on all of the images, looks very unnatural to me.
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Ciolent, have you commented on which of my comparison shots looks best to you?

Forget which camera is which, just look at the shots and say which ones you think look better.
 
Barry_Green said:
Ciolent, have you commented on which of my comparison shots looks best to you?

Forget which camera is which, just look at the shots and say which ones you think look better.
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My apologies Barry, and thank you as always for your tests. My opinions on the tests are as follows




B,C,A.

I like B more as it looks more pleasing to my eye, C looks sharper but lacks detail seen on B + A. A came in last place as on this wide shot it looks almost out of focus/blurry. Even with those issues though I think it has more detail in the shot when compared to C but falls in last place due to the overall image blur



B, A


B,A,C


It's a tie as I really do not like either shot


A,B
 
I don't know...I think no matter what when you compare several images side by side you are always going to pick the best one out of the bunch. If you threw film in there it's quite possible everyone would choose film as their favorite. But when you use these cameras by themselves then all of that goes out the door because "by themselves" they make beautiful images and compositions (given the talent).

I mean...you can't expect to have a DVX and Fuji film in the same scene without some sort of jarring effect. But on their own...they are fabulous.
 
So Barry,
From the results so far. Is the results comparison pretty much what you were expecting? Did everyone SO FAR have the right picks?
 
Ian-T said:
I don't know...I think no matter what when you compare several images side by side you are always going to pick the best one out of the bunch. If you threw film in there it's quite possible everyone would choose film as their favorite. But when you use these cameras by themselves then all of that goes out the door because "by themselves" they make beautiful images and compositions (given the talent).

I mean...you can't expect to have a DVX and Fuji film in the same scene without some sort of jarring effect. But on their own...they are fabulous.
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This is a very true statement I think. I think that I just naturally have adapted around the limitations of my 7D and I do love what I make with it, hands down. But, what I am excited about more is the cameras after the 7D and GH1. It can only get better is what I tell myself :)

One thing I also did with the two images was color match them, then I downrezed to 720p. The purpose was to see at 720p how they looked. At that resolution, the both looked just as good as one another. I did not do this with C, but I think C would have beat them both.

The one BIG problem with me using the GH13 is the lack of video monitoring. I use a crane A LOT and a few other setups where I am NO WHERE near the camera. I rely on a smallHD monitor during these times. The point and prey method (as Barry calls it) just does not work for me. I am not one to hold a camera static, I like to move around, and that is a deal breaker for my needs.

That said, for those owning a GH1 and not needing to worry about that aspect, you are going to be able to shoot a lot better wide stuff than the Canon for sure. I will also say, with BOTH the GH1 and the Canon, the aliasing is HORRIBLE. This is why I use the camera for 720p final result in all projects so far. I would not feel comfortable releasing something 1080p with all those jagged lines everywhere.
 
Ian-T said:
I don't know...I think no matter what when you compare several images side by side you are always going to pick the best one out of the bunch. If you threw film in there it's quite possible everyone would choose film as their favorite. But when you use these cameras by themselves then all of that goes out the door because "by themselves" they make beautiful images and compositions (given the talent).

I mean...you can't expect to have a DVX and Fuji film in the same scene without some sort of jarring effect. But on their own...they are fabulous.
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Yeah but we're comparing the same class of tools and the same image. For those looking to purchase, this is very relevant and a fair test. 7D/T2i or GH13? Which one produces a better image in this specific circumstance?

If anyone's already satisfied with what they have then there's no need to defend it with anything else but good work. Regardless of if the GH13 produced what is technically considered a better base image, at least in lit scenarios--street lamp comparisons to be determined--you should still be able to use your camera right?

And, those who don't have one yet and are ready to invest, or will want to move to another system will and can.

Therefor... LET THE COMPARISON CONTINUE! MUAHAHAHA

Me PERSONALLY, I'll only use a 7D if I'm getting paid to. AKA HAVE TO DO IT.

The rest of what's "off" about the GH1 will be fixed in due time with a little donation money.
 
^
Hey Kholi! Time to add the GH13 to your footer tag? :) (I know I've already said that once this week)
 
Based ONLY HOW SHARP. (Order is sharpest to least sharp)

Group 1:
C
B
A

Group 2:
B
A

Group 3:
C
B
A

Group 4:
B
A

Group 5:
B
A

Simple version. This list is the order (of footage) that I would like to be working with shot by shot. Top one first ...next down less....last one least of all.

Not like it matters...but: My *Guess* of which camera is which:

Group 1, Group 3 Best footy (C) is NOT DSLR.
(Panasonic VIDEO camera?...pick your poison)

After that, It looks like Camera B is the GH13.
It looks like camera A is the 7d.

I won't be surprised if I am *surprised*....??? huh? What I mean is....I could be wrong...but that's what my gut says right now.

Thanks again Barry...this was fun! I look forward to the reveal.
 
JoeJITSU said:
So Barry,
From the results so far. Is the results comparison pretty much what you were expecting? Did everyone SO FAR have the right picks?
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Well, depends on what you mean by "the right picks". There is no right answer, as far as which one looks better; the only "right answer" to that one is, whichever you prefer, is the right one.

So as for all the rankings, there is no "right" for the rankings. When people say they like A over B, or C over A, that's all just fine for them.

As for the camera guesses, as to whether people are guessing which one is which -- some have gotten some right, a few have gotten it exactly right, some have been way off... but again that wasn't really the purpose of the exercise. It was to have folks see that there are differences, and for them to judge the images they see as to what they prefer.

I think the ultimate outcome here would be for folks who have otherwise been diehard (even fanboy), to get their eyes opened and realize that there are other factors than just "marketing" or "hype" or "excitement" or "brand loyalty," and that ... really ... none of those should be factors in their purchasing decision. They should buy what produces the results they prefer, regardless of whether that's the "popular" choice or the "hyped" choice. And if nobody else reinforces that decision? So what. Man up, own your decision, and shoot it up! :thumbsup:
 
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