550D/GH13 comparision shot

G

Grunf

Active member
Hello gang!

I just purchased a GH1 to go along my 550D. I applied firmware patch to GH1 and took both both cameras out for some testing.

GH1 is so much better it's not even funny...I used kit lenses on both cameras and zoomed so I framed approximately same area. And yes, I double-checked that focus was perfect on both cameras and used 1080p on both. This is a crop from raw frame, taken from VLC. No sharpening and no grading, just frame-grab directly to file and crop.

GH1 has zero, I repeat, zero moïre when in AVCHD-mode. Tried both on brick-walls. 550D starts color-dancing and looses detail long before Panny. Panny only blurs when bricks cannot be resolved any more. To my eye, this looks like pixel-binning.

I shot some other scenes with lot's of details and difference is even greater. We would really really need a firmware upgrade for 550D right now. 550D is 18MP, panny is 13MP. I understand that pixel-binning is harder to do on higher pixel count, but if Panny can do pixel binning in 1080p30 (30x13MP = 1,17Gpixel/sec) then Canon wouldn't be far-off if doing it in 24p (24x18MP = 1,29Gpixel/sec).

This DSLR stuff is moving way too fast... :crybaby: Of well, 550D still takes superior stills.
 

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LOL Grunf.

The differences here could be due to the actual lens but I'd wager the findings are mostly accurate.

That's a major difference, though.

I wouldn't expect it to be that drastic but then again cowpunk found the same between the 5D and GH13.

Enjoy the GH13! Thing is extra clean/sick.
 
WOW!
and I was always hoping for a Mark II one day. I just returned my 7D to B&H as well. Almost sold the GH1....whew! close call.
 
Kholi, this is just a tip of a iceberg. I've done lot's of other shots. It's not the lens. 550D kit lens cannot blur stuff in 1080p while keeping 10MP worth of details in stills. I will try to put full-frame grabs of detailed motives online. Only reason for not doing it is not to induce depression.

And I can mount my old stock of Canon f1.2 FD glass on Panny! :Drogar-BlackEye(DBG
 
That is pretty drastic. I thought that the T2i would be more crisp than that. I would love to see more frame grabs as well. Thanks Grunf for doing this.
 
How about this. Remember, this is frame-grab which I had to re-compress to JPEG so I can upload it so it lost a little bit more, then it got further mangled by this site when uploaded. I even took Panny footage and extrapolated chroma from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 and then saved as RGB raw for some grading. It holds up pretty well.

I'll try to upload some 4:2:2 RAW extrapolated grading comparison as well. Panny bitrate is jumping all over the place (i used C setting), 550D is steady 45Mbit. But on many occasions, Panny bitrate was actually lower than 550D one, despite having much more detail.

My hunch is that Canon compression is a bit easier on chroma, but it's just a hunch. Need to examine...
 

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Average Bitrate Canon: 45Mbit
Average Bitrate Panny: 38Mbit

edit: Picture removed, might be misleading.
 
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You shouldn't exaggerate either unit's worst traits, because people won't read what you wrote, they'll just look at the pictures. If you're going to post pictures that have exaggerated one's faults, you have to put a text banner over the picture itself explaing what you've done, or people will invariably come away with the wrong conclusion.
 
Barry_Green said:
You shouldn't exaggerate either unit's worst traits, because people won't read what you wrote, they'll just look at the pictures. If you're going to post pictures that have exaggerated one's faults, you have to put a text banner over the picture itself explaing what you've done, or people will invariably come away with the wrong conclusion.
Click to expand...

You are right, pic removed. Will concentrate on chroma comparison.
 
I have a 7D and have shot lots of stuff with it. I have had bad looking shots with the 720p that have looked like your building, but generally speaking in 1080, my shots have been much sharper and cleaner that the pic you posted.

The 550d shot looks unusually soft. My shots are usually never that soft unless something is wrong. In fact, the sharpness usually resembles the GH1 shot that you took. But then again, I don't have the kit lens and have been using 17-55 f2.8 and the Tamron 17-50 f2.8 in the past for a zoom.

With that said, I am definitely jealous of the GH1 retool. I'm sure the 7d/550 could be retooled also, but I guess somebody has to do it because it probably isn't going to be Canon.

The 7D codec is decent but could for sure be better. I shot some low light stuff the other day, and the codec was breaking up in the darks which I wish it wouldn't do.

Tester 13 has shown us all that a lot more is possible than anyone thinks. Tester 13 is amazing, now we just gotta get him to work on the 7D. Hehehe...
 
And the aliasing on that pole on the GH1 is horrible :)

I agree, I get WAY sharper images than that out of my 7D, I'd say something is wrong. Also, as has been mentioned before, sharpness algorithms need to be taken out of the equation. The GH1 looks over sharpened to me.

(the top of the building has a lot of aliasing along the roof as well)
 
It's all cyclical for sure. 7D users enjoyed an advantage for a while, and now the GH1 has bumped up. But in the future, I'm sure Canon will catch up again. Remember how much complaining the GH1 users did? Well... I guess now it's our turn.

Probably in the semi-near future, it will be RAW and also a better secondary compressed codec choice. Once it hits that point, the codec thing is will a minor issue. Then we can get back to just making cool projects as opposed to worrying about the camera war, which I am admittedly a part of! Hehe...

As for me, I'm probably Canon for life with all their lenses I own (for better or worse). I just really love their lenses. The EFS 17-55 f2.8 and the 70-200 f2.8 II have to be 2 of the greatest zooms EVER made, and I just can't imagine not using them. I probably can get an adapter and use them on the GH1, but from my experience, adapter are just not quite as nice as native integration.

Can you adapt EOS lenses to the GH1 since it is missing the aperture ring and has to be done electronically?
 
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Grunf said:
Hello gang!

I just purchased a GH1 to go along my 550D. I applied firmware patch to GH1 and took both both cameras out for some testing.

GH1 is so much better it's not even funny...I used kit lenses on both cameras and zoomed so I framed approximately same area. And yes, I double-checked that focus was perfect on both cameras and used 1080p on both. This is a crop from raw frame, taken from VLC. No sharpening and no grading, just frame-grab directly to file and crop.

GH1 has zero, I repeat, zero moïre when in AVCHD-mode. Tried both on brick-walls. 550D starts color-dancing and looses detail long before Panny. Panny only blurs when bricks cannot be resolved any more. To my eye, this looks like pixel-binning.

I shot some other scenes with lot's of details and difference is even greater. We would really really need a firmware upgrade for 550D right now. 550D is 18MP, panny is 13MP. I understand that pixel-binning is harder to do on higher pixel count, but if Panny can do pixel binning in 1080p30 (30x13MP = 1,17Gpixel/sec) then Canon wouldn't be far-off if doing it in 24p (24x18MP = 1,29Gpixel/sec).

This DSLR stuff is moving way too fast... :crybaby: Of well, 550D still takes superior stills.
Click to expand...


That's a horrible picture of the T2i on your part, has NOTHING to do with the camera more like the end user not knowing what he is doing.
 
Cieloent said:
That's a horrible picture of the T2i on your part, has NOTHING to do with the camera more like the end user not knowing what he is doing.
Click to expand...

Quite insulting.

I'm pretty sure people are mumbling this about Hunter's comparisons between the GH13 and 5D... And the 5D is how much better than the t2i?

It is what it is...
 
gene_can_sing said:
Can you adapt EOS lenses to the GH1 since it is missing the aperture ring and has to be done electronically?
Click to expand...

You can but you need to put the lenses on an EOS body to control aperture. Could always buy a cheapy 35mm one if you reaaaaaally need EOS lenses...but outside of tests I don't get what the point would be unless you've got a lot of money invested in the system.
 
Chillout guys. :)

Sure the kit lenses are made of different quality. Here's funny stuff on the subject:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=213806

Something posted a few months ago on the 550D kit lens' inferior quality:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1908462&postcount=16

Another interesting one where it is possible to see the sharpest GH1 kit lens to shine over... a L class lens (go figure!):
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=2015824&postcount=252

And sure, GH1 is actually sharper, even though it will also depend on the CIRCUMSTANCES. Both have strengths and weaknesses. The more you use them the more you find where one is "better" (how I hate to have to use this word here!) over the other.

As a reduser.net poster is used to salute his brothers in craft...
happy shooting!
E. :)
 
OK...call me crazy....but WHY WOULD ANYONE COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS? I don't get it. I own a T2i. So what. Now I have a GH1 in the mail. Why would you COMPLAIN about the fact that someone has a BETTER product for the same price? In fact, I paid 100 less for my GH1 than I did for my T2i. The image results are IMPRESSIVE. Someone will beat it in less than a year...I'll sell it and move on. NO BIG DEAL.

Honestly...things are moving pretty fast and I wouldn't get to attached if I were you. I love my T2i. I'll be shooting wedding pics in a couple of weeks...it more than paid for the camera...that's fine.

The GH1 images are FREAKISH for a 700.00 camera. Stop complaining or trying to defend the T2i/7d/5d and applaud the better tool. I saw a music video shot on the T2i today...IT WAS SOOO BEAUTIFUL...it will be no less beautiful tomorrow. Having said that, I will be shooting with the GH13 starting June 22....and likely will until someone beats it for a similar price point. Will the AF100 beat it? YEP! I'll be shocked if it doesn't. Will I buy one? NOPE! It won't be 10x better....but it will cost about 10x more.

Having said that....it would be REALLY FUN if it was 10x better! (Then I'd likely buy one.)

ANYWHO...celebrate the better camera...EVEN IF YOU DON'T OWN IT. (Because tomorrow you may.)

Today...the better camera is the GH13.
 
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Bad boy :)
Click to expand...

I guess I'm probably not supposed to say that...(honestly sorry). But this one is pretty clear cut. I'm also NOT SAYING that people can't use ANY of the three of those cameras to make quality material. (With talent, time, determination, support.) ...and that's COMPLETELY the same for someone with a GH13.

For me specifically, I like to shoot with Anamorphic lenses. It's just so much fun to me. I find that adding anamorphics to the equation is challenging. One of those factors is the fact that they soften the image. The T2i image is already softer (as you can see)...and that's fine....except that sometimes it can get so soft that it's pretty much unusable. I can't wait to shoot with the GH13. I've already seen some anamorphic footy....WOW! (Lomo Anamorphic...I have one too.) It was AMAZING! No QUESTION...it was better than ANYTHING I have shot with the T2i WITH THE SAME LENS. It's OK....no biggie. But, it's still true.

BTW...I'm competely aware that 6 months from now it may be the 5d Mark (X) with RAW video(lol). I promise I won't complain though....I'll just smile and use it for all it's worth!

:)
 
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