550D/GH13 comparision shot

Kholi said:
Good thing there's a swear filter on DVXUser. That 28-70/2.8 is pretty much a go-to Zoom as well.

That's what I was saying this ENTIRE time. The GH13 is PLENTY capable of an incredibly detailed and sharp image without artificial sharpening. That still is PROOF.

Thanks for doing this. Good grief, GH13 is KILLING it.
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Kholi, I wasn't doubting that the G13 is sharper which I do believe that it is. The issue was that the image on the 550 was improperly exposed in the test, which leads people to believe that the 550 has a washed out image, which in fact it does not.
 
gene_can_sing said:
Kholi, I wasn't doubting that the G13 is sharper which I do believe that it is. The issue was that the image on the 550 was improperly exposed in the test, which leads people to believe that the 550 has a washed out image, which in fact it does not.
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It can have a washed out image. I shoot washed out on purpose. But, as we say, down to warm and cool images, over sharpened and very soft images it's ALL operator. =D I think we agree on that now more than ever, though.

I was saying more in response to what Ian-T spotted which was digital sharpening in camera. Well, GrunF's post details exactly what I said: I didn't find it in my images with the Sharpness, contrast, noise reduction and EVERYTHING dialed down to -2.

That's pretty much the same smooth, hyper-detailed image I saw.

And, the GH13 image he posted isn't "Sharp" as opposed to just being RESOLUTE as hell. Resolution and Sharpness are two different things.
 
The 550D footage looks like scaled up 720p frames. Wow. That's truly a world of a difference. How do they stack up in 720?
 
I haven't dabbled with 720p yet. My understanding of Panny's hardware and hacked firmware is that Panny only does "real" 720p in MJPEG. If you shoot 1080p MJPEG you will get 720p signal upscaled to 1080p and encoded in MJPEG. (Accidentally, it still looks better than Canon 1080p).

I'll enable MJPEG and try to shoot some 720p stuff. It sucks lot's of data though....70Mbit/sec or so. I hope my SD card can handle it.

There are couple of good things with Panny 720p MJPEG:

1. It's "filmic"...intra-frame and all. Low light stuff doesn't suffer from MPEG-artifacts. It's all random "grain".
2. It's 70Mbit or so...quite high bit rate.
3. You can enable 4:2:2 chroma, which is handy for chroma-keying.

Now if somebody can disassemble Canon ARM-firmware and just make it do pixel-binning, it would be THE camera. I would rather keep my Canon for video. I've grown fond of it...like the grip, the glass and friendly menu's.

But Panny just wipes the floor with it when it comes to video. As I said before, I believe that 60% of Canon bitrate is spent on encoding random line-skipping chroma noise. Panny video above is 16Mbit/sec...Canon is 45Mbit!
 
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gene_can_sing said:
I don't doubt that the GH1 has the better resolution, but what some of you are forgetting is that aesthetics are an equally important part of the equation, and you have to choose what fits your aesthetics. Sorry to sound like a Philip Bloom whore, since I already quote him once in this thread, but he makes a good point. When asked if he's switching to the GH1, he said: "not for me as it doesn’t have the aesthetic or the low light of the Canons….especially the 5Dmkii but it’s still making me use my GH1 again"

And I think that is a good point. I think the reason why many people (including myself) choose the Canon's over the GH1 in the first place was the aesthetics. The Canon's renders light and colors in a very, very pleasing way. Perhaps it's because of the low light capabilities of the Canon, but the colors and the image from the Canons just feel deeper and richer than the GH1 (even the hacked version). For my tastes, even the RED with all it's bone crushing pixel abilities, just does not render colors in as eye pleasing or vivid a manner as the Canons do. From what I've seen the GH1 tends to have a cooler palette, while the Canon's tend to have the warmer palette. My personal choice is warmer colors, but others might like the GH1 aesthetic better.

When you first look at an image, you don't initially pay attention to the pixel detail as you do to the colors and the intangibles. The aesthetics of the Canons are just really nice, and that's why so many of my work colleagues were just floored by the image when they first saw it. It was probably because of this initial reaction that cause people to say that the 7D is better than the RED (which it's not), but it is aesthetically different. I think the GH1 and RED's image is technically more sound, I don't think colors are their strongest point, at least for my needs.

So I suppose that in the end, the pixel factor is important, but how a camera fits into your artistic vision is equally important, and that is not something you can measure by shooting a chart.

But damn, now I do want a Canon hack to up the pixel crushing abilities. Hehe.....
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I actually like the look of the GH1 better in terms of color, etc....even in the Zactuo shoot outs where for the most part it was getting the technical snot kicked out of it, I was going..wow...it looks a lot nicer. Particularly the bathtub scene.

Actually...interesting that we're now seeing some of the resolution differences (which were there before the hack) and yet they were strangely quiet when the GH1 popped up on screen.
 
Hey Grunf , could you post the raw video from the comparison shots you re-did ? Would be great to see :)

or maybe you did already?
 
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Brutally telling comparison shots. Doesn't leave much room for a possible defense of the T2i in terms of resolved detail -- at least in well-lit situations. Those are some awesome images from the GH13

I vote for a low light comparison next: let's see the hacked GH1 vs. the T2i in low-light at 800 and 1600 ISO (does the GH1 go up to 3200 or 6400?)
 
tylerrad said:
Brutally telling comparison shots. Doesn't leave much room for a possible defense of the T2i in terms of resolved detail -- at least in well-lit situations. Those are some awesome images from the GH13

I vote for a low light comparison next: let's see the hacked GH1 vs. the T2i in low-light at 800 and 1600 ISO (does the GH1 go up to 3200 or 6400?)
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Sure. I'll try to do it tomorrow. The big question: what glass to use? My Canon glass is all f2.8. Panny kit lens is f4.0-f5.6. For useful comparison, I will use kit lenses for both.

P.S.
I just begin to fathom how awesome this camera really is. I have a stock of "leftover" FD f1.2 S.S.C. glass...which cannot fit on EF mount w/o messy lenses in-between. I toyed with idea off selling it off for many years. But fitting it on GH1 is no big deal! No mirror = low register distance = fit any lens you like. Can you say: 70Mbit MJPEG with FD 55mm f1.2 S.S.C.? :shocked:
 
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Grunf said:
Sure. I'll try to do it tomorrow. The big question: what glass to use? My Canon glass is all f2.8. Panny kit lens is f4.0-f5.6. For useful comparison, I will use kit lenses for both.

P.S.
I just begin to fathom how awesome this camera really is. I have a stock of "leftover" FD f1.2 S.S.C. glass...which cannot fit on EF mount w/o messy lenses in-between. I toyed with idea off selling it off for many years. But fitting it on GH1 is no big deal! No mirror = low register distance = fit any lens you like. Can you say: 70Mbit MJPEG with FD 55mm f1.2 S.S.C.? :shocked:
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FDs + GH1 = Insane combo.

Check out the old GH1 + FD Videos. Then imagine what it's gonna be like when you get it on your camera.

Do some lowlight tests. Remember, ISO 640 on the GH1 should be about ISO 800 on the T2i.

GH1's ISOs ratings are faster.
 
To be honest, I really feel like hacking firmware should be an area of research where we put more investment or effort. Because really, the products are locked at maybe 50% of their capacity and the money cow relation ship with the manufacturer is annoying.

I could not believe the quality of the Gh13. I am editing 7D footage shot at 720p right now and it's not usable for an HD release. Honestly, the moire and aliasing is running all over the place! I am pulling my hair!!!
 
Grunf said:
Now if somebody can disassemble Canon ARM-firmware and just make it do pixel-binning, it would be THE camera.
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That would be cool. Or hopefully Canon will look into this themselves for the 5DmarkIII and 7D mkII when they're released.
 
Can you say: 70Mbit MJPEG with FD 55mm f1.2 S.S.C.?
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I'm really, really curious to see this. Even if a fair comparison can't be made between this setup and the T2i, I'm all for seeing what the GH13 can do with a solid low-light configuration
 
Barry_Green said:
I don't know that's a fair conclusion to draw... the Canon just looks overexposed, and that would cause the sky to overexpose, blowing out the clouds... if the canon was stopped down darker to match the GH1, I'm sure it could have held the clouds better than this pic shows, probably at least as well as the GH1 does... all my testing has shown them to be pretty comparable in dynamic range.
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Barry, if you have time could you please shoot your chart? If we ever needed one it's now.
 
adammada said:
#117:
yes - because the T2i was not put optimally sharply (maybe)
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Huh? What's not "optimally sharply"? Lens is my sharpest one and I double-checked focus by using manual focus and zooming in on live view and making sure it's right. Aperture is at 11 on both and GH1 has it sharpness all the way down, while Canon has it "in the middle". I don't know what more I could do to make it "optimally sharply".
 
Grunf said:
Huh? What's not "optimally sharply"? Lens is my sharpest one and I double-checked focus by using manual focus and zooming in on live view and making sure it's right. Aperture is at 11 on both and GH1 has it sharpness all the way down, while Canon has it "in the middle". I don't know what more I could do to make it "optimally sharply".
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:Drogar-Mad(DBG):I don't hold anything of these comparisons - you can manipulate too much

:furious3:and your T2i "PictureStyle Standard 3,0,0,0" is very bad for filming -
sorry

my ranking is still
1080p
1. 5D II
2. 550D/7D
3. GH13
720p
1. GH13
2. 5D II/ 550D/7D
 
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