4K will require hardware update

Sorry to bother you guys with this, but if I were to go with the Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q, what other costs are involved to take advantage of the FS700 4K2K upgrade?

1. FS700 upgrade from Sony = $?

2. Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q = $2295

3. Convergent Design SSD for Odyssey 7Q = $?

Would love a basic rundown of total cost if possible :)
 
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Simon Shasha said:
Sorry to bother you guys with this, but if I were to go with the Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q, what other costs are involved to take advantage of the FS700 4K2K upgrade?

1. FS700 upgrade from Sony = $?

2. Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q = $2295

3. Convergent Design SSD for Odyssey 7Q = $?

Would love a basic rundown of total cost if possible :)
Click to expand...

1. not yet known but in Japan it was around $300
3. 240 GB $595 480 GB $1195 960 GB $2195

FS700 Support: $1495, $75/day rental rate (US Prices) (that includes: HD/2K Raw up to 240fps (.dng format - Cinema DNG) and Quad HD/4K YCbCr Uncompressed up to 30 fps (.dpx format) )
 
evilthought said:
1. not yet known but in Japan it was around $300
3. 240 GB $595 480 GB $1195 960 GB $2195

FS700 Support: $1495, $75/day rental rate (US Prices) (that includes: HD/2K Raw up to 240fps (.dng format - Cinema DNG) and Quad HD/4K YCbCr Uncompressed up to 30 fps (.dpx format) )
Click to expand...

and correct me if i'm wrong but from what i read from dan of cd, you'd need to run 2 ssd's of 480gb or higher to achieve the 4k or higher frame rates at 2k .
 
epsom salt said:
and correct me if i'm wrong but from what i read from dan of cd, you'd need to run 2 ssd's of 480gb or higher to achieve the 4k or higher frame rates at 2k .
Click to expand...

Im not sure about the 4k but 2k raw in high frame rate I think you have to have 2 ssd. You could buy 2*240gb to lower the cost and still be able to do what you want but not for a very long time... In my case im fine with 1080p60 for slow motion bursts in 10 or 12bit. I think Dan said you only need one ssd for that purpose, wich makes sense.
 
Just a thought - what if part of the hardware update was to upgrade the connection between the camera and the spot where the memory module goes. Imagine having 10bit capability built into that! Just dreaming, but that would be perfect.
 
Kraut69 said:
Dan, when will a downloadable operator's guide be available? I am interested in knowing what niceties will be lacking in your product, that people often assume they will be getting, as is the case with the BMCC, for instance the BMCC not telling you how much recording time you have left.
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Dear Kraut69,

We have not prepared a manual (operating guide) yet.

Yes, we will be displaying important camera and recording information prominently on our 7.7" OLED Monitor.

1. You will be provided with the capacity of the SSD's that you are using, one display for SSD 1 and one for SSD 2 if that is inserted also.

2. You will be provided with the number of minutes remaining. This is the total recording time remaining using both SSD's.

We will be able to span automatically from one SSD to another automatically.

And we alert you when the remaining recording time gets low.

3. We plan on supporting the ability to create two simultaneous masters.

This may or may not make it into the initial firmware, but I want it there from day one.

4. We will also report the number of minutes of recording time remaining on each SSD individually.

Please note that the Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q build on our experience of designing and building the Gemini 4:4:4.

Much of the code (firmware) from the Gemini 4:4:4 will transfer to the Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q.
Thus, I can speak with confidence on these features.

Items 1, 2, and 4 are already present in our Gemini 4:4:4, thus they will definitely be in the Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q from day one.


To expand on your question, here are some more items that will be in the Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q.

1. Our philosophy is to make operation as easy as possible and as foolproof as we can make it.

For example, we attempt to determine the source camera (if possible) and then configure the recorder automatically.

For example, if you have ALEXA ARRIRAW recording option, then when you send ARRIRAW we setup for recording ARRIRAW, and configure certain options, such as triggering from the camera automatically.

We do the same for the Canon C500.

For HD-SDI cameras, we generally cannot detect the camera brand/type. Thus, we have a simple menu option where you get the select the camera, which sets up many menu options in just one step.

For the ALEXA, we show certain camera metadata automatically, such as White Balance, Exposure Index and Shutter Angle,

And for all cameras, you can enter (and record (in formats that support it)) Shooting Day, Scene Number or Name, Take Number, and Project Frame Rate.


2. We automatically detect the incoming video format and frame rate and display it.

Here are just some examples: 1080p23.976, 1080p24, 1080p59.94, 1080p60 or ARRIRAW 4:3 48 fps Variframe

3. And we will show the output format.

4. We display the current compressed codec information, such as Avid DNxHD 220x or the other very popular codec's name and version.
Or we will display Cinema DNG or DPX.

5. We display the current battery Voltage, and the internal temperature of the unit, and we will show the internal temperature of the SSD's also.

We plan on alerting you to when the battery voltage gets low, but I do not know if we will have this ready for the first firmware release.
(This is a feature that we have discussed in depth, but since it is not currently in our Gemini 4:4:4 I am not promising it for the Odyssey7Q initial firmware release.)

We warn when the temperature gets high. This is only occurs (typically), when the unit is enclosed in an air tight enclosure.

If the temperature gets too high (70C, 158F Internal Temperature) the unit will take corrective action to protect itself.

6. We show the Clip Name, the running elapsed time of the clip while recording, audio level meters, the recording trigger mode, the date and time, the camera type, the type of recording (such as ARRIRAW, Canon Raw, HD, 2K, 4K, etc.) and the current assignments of the F1 and F2 function keys.

7. Of course, we support Zebras, Waveform Monitor, RGB Parade, Histogram, Color Vectorscope, 1 to 1 Pixel Mode (Zoom), Focus Assist, False Color.

We demonstrated the Waveform Monitor, RGB Parade, Histogram and our wonderful Focus Assist (three separate modes, with many variations of each mode possible) at NAB.

I understand that we will demo Color Vectorscope and False Color for the first time this Friday at Cine Gear Expo.

8. The Odyssey7Q will have Onion Skinning, which is the ability to display a reference image from a previous clip over the current video input.

The opacity of the reference clip can be varied so that you can see both images.

This allows one to precisely setup a camera, and the items in a scene, to exactly duplicate a previous scene and camera setup (camera position, lens or zoom setting, camera pointing angle, etc.).

9. We will have time-lapse recording, and for the compressed formats, we will support prerecord buffer (cache recording).



I have greatly expanded upon your original question in an attempt to show that the Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q will be professional level products, with the important information that you need readily available.

But, more importantly, we do listen to our customers and potential customers and if you see something missing, please let us know.

I hope this helps,


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
epsom salt said:
and correct me if i'm wrong but from what i read from dan of cd, you'd need to run 2 ssd's of 480gb or higher to achieve the 4k or higher frame rates at 2k .
Click to expand...

Dear Friends,

Our SSD's can record, continuously up to 400 Megabytes per second, from 0 to 100% full.

But, we like to provide a little extra margin for safety. At this time, we are expecting to require two SSD's for any format that requires over 380 Megabytes per second. When we do, we record even numbered frames to one SSD and odd numbered frames to the other. We have a very elegant "Clip Merger" that is very fast. It merges the two folders together, just as if it was recorded to one SSD.

To record from the FS700, in 2K Raw, at 240 fps continuously, one needs two of our SSD's, and these can be 240 GB SSD's.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
stefanvanjaarsveld said:
Just a thought - what if part of the hardware update was to upgrade the connection between the camera and the spot where the memory module goes. Imagine having 10bit capability built into that! Just dreaming, but that would be perfect.
Click to expand...

Dear Stefan,

I did not know if you wanted me to answer your question or not.

We have a Sony FS700 with the hardware upgrade, and we tested the output in HD mode, and it was 8-Bit in the 10-Bit HD-SDI format.

And we know that the 2K Raw and 4K Raw is 12-Bit Linear Raw.

But, since we have an earlier, pre-final release hardware upgraded FS700, they may be some hope left that the final upgraded camera would be 10-Bit in 10-Bit format for HD.

Personally, I consider this a long-shot. We have not discussed this with Sony, we just performed the test and reported the results.


So, we will be providing a great way to obtain very high quality 10-Bit or even higher HD, but this will require our Odyssey7Q.

I hope this helps.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
freshTEA said:
Btw Dan,
Is there any info regarding battery life and what kind of batteries the odysseys use? I dont see any pictures with batteries on the monitor.
Click to expand...

Dear freshTEA,

We will offer our own 14.4 Volt Battery system, and there will be cable that can connect the Odyssey7's and Odyssey7Q's to professional batteries, and we expect battery plates that will support a wide variety of batteries.

With our 14.4 Volt 4-Cell Lithium-Ion battery, one can expect around 3 hours or more recording time in most cases, (less if recording to two SSD's simultaneously).

We use this battery on our Gemini 4:4:4 which has similar power requirements and the standby time is quite long, as well as the recording time is generally over two hours, closer to three or more.

But, please take these figures as preliminary, as we need to run more tests.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dan Keaton said:
Dear Friends,

I quoted my original post, since I had promised updates on our progress.

The next day, we perfected the image and then recorded from the upgraded FS700 in 2K Raw (to Cinema DNG).

The images that we recorded were the Raw images from the FS700, without any color balancing, thus they looked magenta on the Odyssey7Q monitor.

Then we processed these RAW Images (as industry standard Cinema DNG files) in a NLE, performing deBayering and color correction.

The processed images looked perfect to our eyes.

This first end to end test was performed at 120 fps. We are now stepping up to 240 fps.

We will also be adding internal color correction inside the Odyssey7Q soon, so that the images look correct on our 7.7" OLED monitor.

This is just a standard step that is required in developing a recorder and this should be accomplished soon.

It is our plan to show the upgraded FS700 + Odyssey7Q + FS700 Recording Option, at Cine Gear Expo, in Hollywood, Friday May 31 and Saturday June 1st.

This will be a live, working unit, and we expect to be recording live footage at Cine Gear Expo, either in our booth or Sony's.

Our Booth is S222 on Sound State 32, across the isle from Sony (S218). This is on the Paramount Studio Lot in Hollywood.

If you have not attended this show, please consider it, as this is a wonderful, exciting event. It has a completely different feel than other trade shows.


There have been discussions in this thread about the advantages of recording in Raw.

As discussed, there are many advantages. It is so nice to be able to pull out images that are either very overexposed or very underexposed (or both in the same frame).

And if one is shooting under varying lighting conditions, it is great to be able to adjust to various color temperature lighting, if needed, without compromising the image quality.

There are many other advantages also. One is that one can record in Raw, then deBayer for the destination format, be it HD, 2K, or other formats to obtain the best quality.

I do expect Sony to release the Bit-Depth information for the FS700 at Cine Gear (or just before).

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...

Dear Friends,

Here is another status update.

Our team was working yesterday (Saturday), attempting to get the FS700 code ready for Cine Gear Expo.

We are now recording from the upgraded Sony FS700, in 2K Raw, in 12-bit Linear Raw, at the full 240 fps.

As reported before, the images are looking good.

I do know that our team has some work remaining for Monday, but we are very happy to have met this milestone.

Again, for Cine Gear Expo, Friday May 31 and Saturday, June 1st, we will be at our booth, S222 on Sound Stage 32, showing the Odyssey7Q with

Focus Asssist (Peaking)
Waveform Monitor with RGB Parade
Histogram
Color Vectorscope
Zebras
False Color

And we will be recording from a hardware + firmware upgraded FS700 in 2K Raw, 12-Bit Linear, at 240 fps.

We will have other cameras there also.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dan Keaton said:
Dear Friends,

Our SSD's can record, continuously up to 400 Megabytes per second, from 0 to 100% full.

But, we like to provide a little extra margin for safety. At this time, we are expecting to require two SSD's for any format that requires over 380 Megabytes per second. When we do, we record even numbered frames to one SSD and odd numbered frames to the other. We have a very elegant "Clip Merger" that is very fast. It merges the two folders together, just as if it was recorded to one SSD.

To record from the FS700, in 2K Raw, at 240 fps continuously, one needs two of our SSD's, and these can be 240 GB SSD's.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...

very good, thanx for clearing that up dan.
 
:) Was wondering If anyone here with a little more experience in this area can enlighten me the most lightweight solution to supply a monitor like the odyssey.

would something like this work in order to supply both camera and monitor at the same time?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/825575-REG/Teradek_CUBIT_647_647_SWIT_Replacement_Battery.html

I think they are using a similar solution here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachm...es-info-direct-convergent-design-img_0809.jpg

Something that will require minimum bulk..

:)
 
freshTEA said:
:) Was wondering If anyone here with a little more experience in this area can enlighten me the most lightweight solution to supply a monitor like the odyssey.

would something like this work in order to supply both camera and monitor at the same time?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/825575-REG/Teradek_CUBIT_647_647_SWIT_Replacement_Battery.html

I think they are using a similar solution here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachm...es-info-direct-convergent-design-img_0809.jpg

Something that will require minimum bulk..

:)
Click to expand...

Hi FreshTEA,

I'm afraid that the battery voltage for the FS700 is only 7,2V and for the Odyssey you need at least 10V (specs say 10 to 34 VDC). The battery on the camera is the model for the F3, which runs at 12V. The one solution that would work with the 7,2V battery is to add a voltage convertor to 12 or 14V. It's just a cable with a small box. But yes, it's another box extra and you need to find a suitable one.
 
Dear Friends,

We will offer a nice, compact, relatively lightweight battery for the Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q.

It will have four Lithium-Ion cells, and produce 14.4 volts nominal and power the unit around 3 hours recording time (depending on if you are recording to one or two SSD's), with longer standby time.

It will have a mount that connects directly to the back of the units and the power cable will be the correct size that it is neat.

There will be other battery cables to power the units from other batteries.

It was important to us to support a wide range of battery voltages. For the ALEXA and other cameras, high voltages, 24 Volts, 26.4 Volts, 28 Volts and higher are common place. So we created a power supply that works from 10 Volts to 35 volts.

Above 35 Volts, the unit protects itself from over voltage, up to xx voltage, where xx is more than is commonly found on set as a DC power source.

And the unit is protected against reverse polarity.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Glad we'll be able to power it from an IDX plate. I've used the PIX 240i with two Sony batteries on it, really made the rig a bit lopsided and front-heavy. Getting the power on the rails and in the back will help alleviate that.

Excited to hear more as you it develops. Thanks for answering all of our questions.
 
Hi Dan,

Thank you so much for all the information.

Will the monitors be equipped with histograms or waveforms that monitor the RAW output?
 
Dear Kslau8,

We have histograms and waveform monitors now.

It is our intention to make these work effectively for monitoring the Raw output.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dan, what is the latest word - can Odyssey 7Q record 2K RAW from FS700 at 12 bit? Sony says the 4K Upgraded cam outputs 2K RAW in 12 bit depth via SDI - but can your unit preserve the information?
 
Just an information friends : in Europe (well, in France) the V.3 update is 500€ flat, shipping costs included and with no extra VAT.
 
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