4K Samsung NX 1 now available for pre-order

OldCorpse said:
Unless a Samsung camera is head and shoulders - and chest and waist and knees and ankles - above everyone else, I predict big failure for Samsung sales-wise. The market size for DSLR cameras with outstanding video capabilities to the pro or semi-pro level is not infinite - it's a limited market. And most people have made their choices.
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It's all about the long game IMO. One camera will not change the market. But 20-30 years out, if they stick with it and build a solid system, they could easily grab the attention of the next generation of photographers and cinemtographers. The biggest problem for these companies is not the hardware but the market perception. They need to undermine the idea that you should be shooting Nikon or Canon if you're serious about what you do. The way to do that is to continue to build solid products and get them in the hands of pros that can testify on their behalf. You're right, that may not sway the older generation who have already established their preferred gear. But if they can sway of few of them who can then influence the next generation, they stand a good chance of being the future Canon of today.

The problem with Panasonic and Olympus is that they've painted themselves into a corner with their 43 sensor size. Based on physics alone, they'll never be able to fully compete with APS-C or full frame. The best they can hope for is that the quality is good enough that it won't matter anymore to most users. But they'll never be able to claim the best. Samsung faces the same problem unless they introduce a full frame camera and lens system at some point.
 
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HVXguy said:
The camera sounds great but we may need to wait to see how Apple & Adobe implement H.265 support…..

Without that support this camera will be dead in the water.
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You have to assume that, with HEVC being a new industry standard, this is only a matter of time.

As to Samsung's pricing and promotion, they have taken a huge dump in the mobile phone market in the most recent accounting year and are seemingly trying to catch up everywhere else with 167 items being discounted for Black Friday.


http://www.samsung.com/us/shop/black-friday/HIGHRATE/1/15

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roxics said:
The problem with Panasonic and Olympus is that they've painted themselves into a corner with their 43 sensor size. Based on physics alone, they'll never be able to fully compete with APS-C or full frame. The best they can hope for is that the quality is good enough that it won't matter anymore to most users. But they'll never be able to claim the best. Samsung faces the same problem unless they introduce a full frame camera and lens system at some point.
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Never could, and still don't understand why these meaningless mantras keep getting recycled. Is the hope that if they are repeated enough times they because truisms? Anyway, best for what?
 
stoneinapond said:
Never could, and still don't understand why these meaningless mantras keep getting recycled. Is the hope that if they are repeated enough times they because truisms? Anyway, best for what?
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Low light, dynamic range, resolution. There are limitations to light itself where larger sensors of the same technology can outperform the smaller sensors. But like I said, it just comes to a point where you ask yourself "do I care?" Panasonic and Olympus are betting on that, along with the overall smaller form factor they can build as a result of the smaller sensor.
 
DLD said:
You have to assume that, with HEVC being a new industry standard, this is only a matter of time.
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Yes you are correct - the iPhone 6 is using h.265 I think??? If Apple is smart they will provide robust h.265 support before Adobe.
 
roxics said:
......resolution......it just comes to a point where you ask yourself "do I care?" Panasonic and Olympus are betting on that, along with the overall smaller form factor they can build as a result of the smaller sensor.
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Yes, I do care. And you can bet that 4K resolution recorded internally on a GH4 beats the crap out of full-frame 1080p recorded internally.

I'm sure in the future, internal 4K recording will become more available, but for now, there is no contest.

I've watched Samsung make leaps and bounds when it comes to upping their game technically and optically and the NX1 is no slouch in that regard. But I'm waiting to see more footage that can be easily edited (widespread H265 support in NLEs required) because what I have seen so far, while good, doesn't make me want to work with it, despite it being a bigger sensor.

So size is not everything, and the right tools for different applications will always win when judging the inevitable compromises that ALL formats present.
 
stoneinapond said:
So size is not everything, and the right tools for different applications will always win when judging the inevitable compromises that ALL formats present.
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Oh I agree with you completely. There are a lot of factors involved. There is no perfect system as there will always be a some tradeoffs. My point was just to say that all things being equal, a larger sensor will produce a better image due to the physics of light. That's not me talking crap about m43. I used to a own a GH1 and GH2. They're good cameras and for some people the smaller physical size of the camera itself is a checkmark in the positive column over a full frame camera.
 
I'm more interested in how this does in low light. It doesn't have to be at A7s levels, but it really should be better than GH4 (the GH4 is unacceptably poor in low light) with noise-free higher ISO. The other thing, is that it's all a co-dependent ecosystem - for example, a speedbooster type adapter is a necessity, and I'm sure Metabones will come out with one, but not if the sales are too low - same thing with all the rest of accessory makers... higher sales means more support and more options, which in turn translates into higher sales.
 
OldCorpse said:
I'm more interested in how this does in low light. It doesn't have to be at A7s levels, but it really should be better than GH4 (the GH4 is unacceptably poor in low light) with noise-free higher ISO. The other thing, is that it's all a co-dependent ecosystem - for example, a speedbooster type adapter is a necessity, and I'm sure Metabones will come out with one, but not if the sales are too low - same thing with all the rest of accessory makers... higher sales means more support and more options, which in turn translates into higher sales.
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I have been shooting with a GH2 and hired out a GH4 a few times. Yes the low light is not that great. I also have a Sony RX10 and use it 90% of the time now. The low light is fantastic. I can shoot about 1600 with no visible noise. I have done two camera shoots with the GH2 and RX10 side by side. The GH2 starts getting really noisy at 800. I had tried the Panasonic FZ1000 and sent it back. I am in no hurry to deliver 4K, in the meantime I will keep trying out cameras until I find a 4K fit.
 
OldCorpse said:
(the GH4 is unacceptably poor in low light) with noise-free higher ISO.
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Totally used to have your opinion about the GH4 in low light.

Get the Sigma 18-35mm lens (Or similar fast + sharp lens) plus speed-booster, shoot in 4K and resolve down to 1080P and you will be astounded by the results.
 
I already transcode all my footage anyway to a higher-bit codec for editing(DNxHD). I pray Adobe enables the transcoding of h265 in the near future. The main thing I'm looking at this camera for is proper DCI 2K capture downscaled from the 4K h265 capture. If this camera has low rolling shutter and proper skin tones, I will invest. Hope I can try it out from a rental house soon.
 
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HVXguy said:
Yes you are correct - the iPhone 6 is using h.265 I think??? If Apple is smart they will provide robust h.265 support before Adobe.
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I wouldn't count on it... If history tells us anything Grass Valley, Sony, then Adobe and finally Apple.... That's how they all implemented native h.264 editing.
 
roxics said:
Low light, dynamic range, resolution. There are limitations to light itself where larger sensors of the same technology can outperform the smaller sensors...
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There are laws of physics and there are leaps in engineering and technology.

As an example, a stacked or an organic sensor design could make the difference between an MFT and a FF sensor fairly negligible for most uses. High/er power processing could then enhance the "natural" abilities of these sensors.

To use a rough analogy from an automotive world - a higher displacement engine has an inherent power advantage over smaller displacement (setting aside weight and MPG considerations) but a modern turbo/super charged 4-cyl such as found in the new Mustang will be more than sufficient for most drivers. The high end auto market will, obviously, still exist but the difference under typical driving conditions won't be as significant as before and the overall performance from something like a Toyota 86/Scion/Subaru BRZ is very close to the much more expensive sports cars of only a recent vintage.
 
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