4k bmpcc

I think it looks a great camera, I may even get one, but if you want to shoot UHD60P now then you need a GH5. It should work great with my GH5S if they have similar sensors etc. I always shoot on tripods indoors. So IBIS is of no interest to me and seeing image in the sun etc not significant. For me the missing items are Lanc control ( on all the other BMC cameras) that could control MFT power zoom lenses etc for a studio like environment. I have an Olympus 12-50 that works great with a Libec Lanc controller on both GH5 and GH5S. Touch spot focus is the other thing I would like ( not sure if it has this ) and need to make sure I can get an Android WiFi app for control. The GH5 and GH5S have all of these features.

Things that appeal to me. Record over USB-C to SSD as I shoot long programs. 5" screen removes need for separate monitor, locking 12volt power input from a large battery.
 
A conversation between my indie film self (roxics) and my real life corporate self (Mike).

roxics
"Mike, look at the BMPCC 4K, it's only $1300 and it shoots raw and ProRes from a m43 sensor. We can take the same lenses from our GH camera and put them on this and get some beautiful stuff."

Mike
"Yeah that's really cool, but it doesn't have an EVF or flip out screen and who knows how weather sealed it is. We just did a half day corporate shoot in the snow/rain this morning and our GH was awesome, even all wet. That EVF was used all the time."

roxics
"We don't need to get rid or our GH, use that for corporate stuff and just buy this one as well. It will be great for studio green screen work and indie films."

Mike
"It would be, except we haven't shot an indie film in thirteen years, so who are you fooling. That's not really us anymore. Plus none of our personal clients have ever asked for green screen work. That was something we did at our old job, where they had a studio and even then, only every once in a blue moon did we do green screen work and we got away fine with compressed codecs."

roxics
"Yeah but the color..."

Mike
"Oh I'm there with you on that, but... those file sizes."

roxics
"Seriously though, it's only $1300, that's a steal for what it is. Just pick one up for the hell of it."

Mike
"Yup it is a steal for the price, but show me a practical use that applies to what we actually do, not what we might (but in reality probably won't) do at some point in the future. What we actually do. Then we'll spend the money. Until then, $1300 is another GH4 or most of a GH5 or half a GH5S or lenses or a hundred other more practical things."
 
Paul F said:
I hear you. Some people see the world half-empty. I think many of us get a certain joy out of pointing out short-comings (me included at times). While I really admire what BlackMagic Design is doing, and as cool as this camera is, I choose the GH5s over this simply because of what PureDrifting said in another thread; I just don't feel I can rely on a BlackMagic camera.... yet. Things like heat vents on the top make me hesitate. But then again, I could buy two of these for the price of a GH5s and have a backup, which one needs on a production anyway.

Who is going to let the $1200 price difference (GH5s) cloud their decision? At this price level, the $$ don't matter that much. Its about image, features, workflow, and reliability. $1200 should not come in to the decision equation.

It is very attractive from a feature perspective so far. My if-only for this camera is timecode-out like the GH5s.
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Timecode out doesn't matter anywhere near as much as timecode in! Which the BMPCC4K does have :-D Fantastic!
 
Thomas Smet said:
Lots of value in this little camera. Dual native ISO at $1,300 is half the price of the GH5S dual native ISO. The 5" 1920x1080 display on the rear is like having a 5" external 1920x1080 monitor which again based on the Atomos Ninja V is another $700 savings. XLR with phantom power means not needing the audio adapter from the GH5S which saves another $400. This is basically a $3,600 bundle of gear based on the GH5, Ninja V and audio adapter all for $1,300. I would call that value. On top of that you no longer need an external recorder. Just buy a USB-C SSD drive and velcro the thing to the camera or tripod and you are good to go to record as much as you want. BMD may have just killed the external recorder market. No more goofy HDMI spec handshakes between devices. Just a dumb storage device and a USB-C cable.

With that said I don't care how cheap the batteries are. 20min, 40min and 60min just doesn't cut it. I think they really dropped the ball here. I'm sure many of us would have been fine if the camera was another mm or two larger to fit a larger battery.

As awesome as raw and ProRes are, the 150mbps and 400mbps from the GH5 is holding up exceptionally well next to those formats. Once you get to a certain quality level the ROI on going any higher doesn't really yield any extra benefit. So suddenly shooting a lot of events will take up 2x, 3x 4x or more the storage requirements with no option to ever go smaller. GH5 can always go larger with an external recorder but the Pocket is forever locked into large files. Storage is cheap however so maybe that isn't a big deal to some people. That is something to factor in for long form project people however. Will you be ok shooting 800mbps for the same overall level of quality that 150mbps can deliver? I will say that 800mbps ProRes file will edit a heck of a lot easier and render faster vs the native GH5 10bit files.

I think there is still a world where both the GH5S and 4k Pocket can be relevant. The Pocket has a ton of value but that doesn't make the GH5S any less value. Still a phenomenal camera and a more realistic choice for some users. Perhaps the GH5S price will come down now. The Pocket is very tempting in deed.
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Using the larger (but still small) Sony BP-U30 would have been ideal, like Kinefinity does in their Terra/MAVO battery grips.

My current BMPCC I use hooked up to a BP-U30 battery and that runs for hours with it.
 
roxics said:
A conversation between my indie film self (roxics) and my real life corporate self (Mike).

roxics
"Mike, look at the BMPCC 4K, it's only $1300 and it shoots raw and ProRes from a m43 sensor. We can take the same lenses from our GH camera and put them on this and get some beautiful stuff."

Mike
"Yeah that's really cool, but it doesn't have an EVF or flip out screen and who knows how weather sealed it is. We just did a half day corporate shoot in the snow/rain this morning and our GH was awesome, even all wet. That EVF was used all the time."

roxics
"We don't need to get rid or our GH, use that for corporate stuff and just buy this one as well. It will be great for studio green screen work and indie films."

Mike
"It would be, except we haven't shot an indie film in thirteen years, so who are you fooling. That's not really us anymore. Plus none of our personal clients have ever asked for green screen work. That was something we did at our old job, where they had a studio and even then, only every once in a blue moon did we do green screen work and we got away fine with compressed codecs."

roxics
"Yeah but the color..."

Mike
"Oh I'm there with you on that, but... those file sizes."

roxics
"Seriously though, it's only $1300, that's a steal for what it is. Just pick one up for the hell of it."

Mike
"Yup it is a steal for the price, but show me a practical use that applies to what we actually do, not what we might (but in reality probably won't) do at some point in the future. What we actually do. Then we'll spend the money. Until then, $1300 is another GH4 or most of a GH5 or half a GH5S or lenses or a hundred other more practical things."
Click to expand...


I am all for a tilt screen, but realistically you don't need one for interviews. This camera has a native dual ISO of 400 and 3200, if it's clean and usable at 3200 then it's a no brainer at this price. You can use it for interviews, for studio use, it can be a nice backup camera. Another great use I can see for this camera is live conferences, you could do a multi-camera setup with the ATEM for under 5k. Unheard of before. My future wish list for this camera is a continuous AF, a tilt screen and MP4. This camera and the Sony A7II are game changing technologies. Watch out Canon.
 
I started out with the GH1 & GH2, jumped to the Canon 5D Mark III, and now my cam of choice is the URSA Mini 4K. It was a hassle to deal with the size jump, especially with the gimbal I already had (Ronin-M), and I've been kind of longing to go smaller again. I was iffy about leaving full frame (5D) to S35 (URSA) and really didn't want to go back to M4/3 so I've been waiting to see what the A7S III has in store for us. But this camera has me excited enough to get a speed booster!
 
I am all for a tilt screen, but realistically you don't need one for interviews.
--
Don't need a small format cam for interviews
 
Gweilo66 said:
Don't need a small format cam for interviews
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I like lot of stuff in the spec sheet of the BMPCC 4k as well as the price. Don't get me wrong on that. However, I don't think it is for corporates. If I have to use this for corporates, then there would be some who will think that I promised a cinema camera and brought a cheap camera instead. People still think "Cinema camera" means something big and serious. It can't be something which I pull out from my cargo trouser pocket and start shooting. People will think I am a wannabe shooter. Fortunately I am on the wrong side of 40s so people will not think that this guy is a college kid masquerading as DP. But then there is also the chance that they might feel that even a man in such an age group is playing with a toy camera means there may be some mental health issues. :)

May be use a big Fujinon zoom and the heavy OConnor tripod with a big matte box to give an outwardly appearance of what people perceive as cinema camera.

For personal projects I can shoot on any camera. For client projects, I have to get it vetted by the client. Remember these days people are so shallow they can't often differentiate between the good and the great. So perception plays a big role. If you mess up the perception, future projects go up in smoke.

In one project where I was only the DP and editing was to be done in US, at the last minute the corporate executive asked me for copy of the files. I had to rush to copy and give him before his flight. It suddenly became very tight. So the recording over USB-C can become very nice provided we can somehow securely strap the ssd. One can then easily handover footage.

For lot of street shooting and shooting in other public places I prefer a stripped down version of a camera. The BMPCC 4K can fit the bill in those situations. Now we will have to wait to hear actual quality of this camera once it is available in the market. Six months is a way too long time between announcement and market. Guess BMD is still fiddling with the camera. Lets hope for the best.
 
No worries..spend the cash on an external monitor, cage, etc..you can reclaim versatility and gravitas.
Just..sayin'..
 
An impressive camera announcement. Will be cool to see some sample footage if they do something similar to the Ursa mini samples you could download.
 
Right until yesterday, the a7S III was the camera I was waiting for. I was hoping for 4k 60fps, eye-detect AF in video mode, and either improved DR or internal 10-bit. But with the pocket 4k selling for $1300, I will only consider the a7S III if it has ALL of those things.

The sony would cost me >$3k, plus $2k-$3k in lenses (Batis 18mm, and a still-to-be-decided 85mm: FE, FE GM, or Sigma Art). With the pocket it's just $1300 for the camera, $900 for media and a new backup HDD, $200 on batteries, $300 for the Samyang 12mm f/2.0 MFT, and $200 for a couple of leica-R-to-m43 adapters (one lens turbo, one normal).

It's $5k-$6k vs <$3k. I don't get AF, I have to stick to my a6000 for stills, and the glass is not as great. But as a "buy now and wait for the next big thing" solution, I think it's really, really good. It gives me two years to wait until Sony makes an a7S whose images are just as good as those from the FS7. And for Sigma to bring their FE-specific lens designs. The only bummer is that initially I thought DR would be like that of the 4.6k, and it's not: BM is rating it two stops short of that, just like the original pocket.

Oh, and it forces me to learn Resolve, which I've been shying away from for the last few years. Still not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. Probably "good but painful".
 
Samuel H said:
Oh, and it forces me to learn Resolve, which I've been shying away from for the last few years. Still not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. Probably "good but painful".
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Most people who aren't high end Avid users or have access to ultra high end grading solutions like Baselight or Mistika who try Resolve don't go back.

Especially once you discover that in addition to having the most transparent workflow out there, there's no ongoing cost...
 
Samuel H said:
Right until yesterday, the a7S III was the camera I was waiting for. I was hoping for 4k 60fps, eye-detect AF in video mode, and either improved DR or internal 10-bit. But with the pocket 4k selling for $1300, I will only consider the a7S III if it has ALL of those things.

The sony would cost me >$3k, plus $2k-$3k in lenses (Batis 18mm, and a still-to-be-decided 85mm: FE, FE GM, or Sigma Art). With the pocket it's just $1300 for the camera, $900 for media and a new backup HDD, $200 on batteries, $300 for the Samyang 12mm f/2.0 MFT, and $200 for a couple of leica-R-to-m43 adapters (one lens turbo, one normal).
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You're doing it right there with the calculations.

Too often other people think switching to MFT would be really expensive. When in reality they likely only need a single extra wide angle lens and a cheap adapter or two. (although I'd go with the Samyang 10mm f2.8 over the 12mm f/2, as the Nikon F mount instead of MFT means I could use it on a focal reducer to get a truly wiiiiiiiide image! Or go for the Tokina 11-20mm f2.8 and get the flexibility of a zoom lens)

Samuel H said:
The only bummer is that initially I thought DR would be like that of the 4.6k, and it's not: BM is rating it two stops short of that, just like the original pocket.
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I was expecting a 4K cut of the 4.6K sensor myself, pity that didn't happen. But doesn't stop me being excited for the BMPCC4K!
 
IronFilm said:
You're doing it right there with the calculations.

Too often other people think switching to MFT would be really expensive. When in reality they likely only need a single extra wide angle lens and a cheap adapter or two. (although I'd go with the Samyang 10mm f2.8 over the 12mm f/2, as the Nikon F mount instead of MFT means I could use it on a focal reducer to get a truly wiiiiiiiide image! Or go for the Tokina 11-20mm f2.8 and get the flexibility of a zoom lens)
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I have the Samyang 12mm f/2.0 with Sony E mount and it's a truly amazing lens. Also quite small, and also pretty cheap. Of course I'll look at all the alternatives before buying, but that horse is way ahead right now!

Also: I could probably cut my battery and media costs in half and be perfectly OK. Maybe I'd need to offload at lunch in some projects, but that would be it: I hardly ever shoot more than 40 minutes of footage in a day. And since I also have 24mm and 35mm Leica-R lenses, I can leave out the speedbooster. With that, I'm just above $2k. I don't want to leave Sony but THIS IS TEMPTING.
 
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indiawilds said:
I like lot of stuff in the spec sheet of the BMPCC 4k as well as the price. Don't get me wrong on that. However, I don't think it is for corporates. If I have to use this for corporates, then there would be some who will think that I promised a cinema camera and brought a cheap camera instead. People still think "Cinema camera" means something big and serious. It can't be something which I pull out from my cargo trouser pocket and start shooting. People will think I am a wannabe shooter. Fortunately I am on the wrong side of 40s so people will not think that this guy is a college kid masquerading as DP. But then there is also the chance that they might feel that even a man in such an age group is playing with a toy camera means there may be some mental health issues. :)

May be use a big Fujinon zoom and the heavy OConnor tripod with a big matte box to give an outwardly appearance of what people perceive as cinema camera.

For personal projects I can shoot on any camera. For client projects, I have to get it vetted by the client. Remember these days people are so shallow they can't often differentiate between the good and the great. So perception plays a big role. If you mess up the perception, future projects go up in smoke.

In one project where I was only the DP and editing was to be done in US, at the last minute the corporate executive asked me for copy of the files. I had to rush to copy and give him before his flight. It suddenly became very tight. So the recording over USB-C can become very nice provided we can somehow securely strap the ssd. One can then easily handover footage.

For lot of street shooting and shooting in other public places I prefer a stripped down version of a camera. The BMPCC 4K can fit the bill in those situations. Now we will have to wait to hear actual quality of this camera once it is available in the market. Six months is a way too long time between announcement and market. Guess BMD is still fiddling with the camera. Lets hope for the best.
Click to expand...


I totally agree, I primarily use a 4k video camera for interviews as main camera for the reasons you mentioned and also audio controls. And sometimes with DSLRs I will fit them with a matte box even indoors just to give that Pro appearance. Non the less I can see this little beast from BM competing with $10K cameras as far as image look, concerning audio, in my case I use a Zoom F8. It's obvious I would not use it as an A camera on higher end corporate interviews, not because it's not capable, but to look professional with the setup. On the other hand on smaller budget jobs one can definitely use it with a mate box as an A camera.
 
Single MOST innovative feature of this camera: Mini-XLR audio input. You may scoff, but think about it, that is the single feature that this camera has that no other camera in it's class has. Unless you only make silent films, the ability to easily and quickly connct pro level mics and or mixer output to this kind of camera trumps almost every image innovation. Finally a company who "gets it", without good audio, you've got nothing.
 
I have wondered why they didn't use the mini XLR's on previous cameras, 1/4 inch connectors take up a lot of room.

It's a very interesting camera and I might buy one, but want to wait until I see if there are moire and IR issues. The price can not be ignored and may set the other companies on a different pricing path to keep up, it's $1000 for the camera with $300 worth of high end software thrown into the deal. Might be nice if they build a package for those users who already own Resolve so they can buy the camera cheaper. Think about how that would be a deal!

For any jobs that might turn away because of the camera, how about a one time discount to sway their faith in the new process. If it makes beautiful pictures and gives lots of room for manipulation (with raw), it may sway them to stop thinking about the hardware, and start thinking about the person(s) doing the work. But I have talked to a few other people about perception, and things are different when you pull the camera out of a case with a mattebox already attached. Stupid really, but that is the way perception is in this field.
 
puredrifting said:
Single MOST innovative feature of this camera: Mini-XLR audio input. You may scoff, but think about it, that is the single feature that this camera has that no other camera in it's class has. Unless you only make silent films, the ability to easily and quickly connct pro level mics and or mixer output to this kind of camera trumps almost every image innovation. Finally a company who "gets it", without good audio, you've got nothing.
Click to expand...

Yes, good to see. Although we will have to see if the quality of the preamps are good or not. That is the end question of if it is useful or not. The Panasonic unit is along the same lines with pretty decent preamps.
 
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