C200: 422 Internal 4K Update to be announced April 3rd

[brm]

Could it be?
https://www.canonrumors.com/feature...eos-r-and-canon-cinema-eos-c200-ahead-of-nab/


Oh and C300 III delayed until later this year...

 

[puredrifting]

Hmm...this C200 rumor seems far fetched. Not impossible, but nobody at Canon even hinted at this when I met with them a couple of weeks ago? Canon Rumors doesn't have an especially high verified guess rate. Would be useful and cool to have, although at this point, I would value UHD RAW instead of DCI RAW a lot more for what I do.

 

[Dustin Svehlak]

The other big rumor in that post, Canon EOS R adding RAW output to the Atomos V, was already leaked by Canon's twitter account by accident. My guess is we'll get 422 internal but in 4K / UHD, it will be limited to 8 Bit. Hoping for 10 Bit HD at least though, that would be pretty great on its own.

 

[NorBro]

...but nobody at Canon even hinted at this when I met with them a couple of weeks ago?

lol. Why would Canon tell you what they are doing? Like tell anyone.

It's one thing if someone has 10 million subscribers on YouTube and they want to send you every camera they make, but you - 99% of us - are completely irrelevant.

If I were the product specialist/rep you met with I would be savvy enough to know (if they don't) that you are on forums and I definitely wouldn't tell you! NDA or no NDA.

The other big rumor in that post, Canon EOS R adding RAW output to the Atomos V, was already leaked by Canon's twitter account by accident. My guess is we'll get 422 internal but in 4K / UHD, it will be limited to 8 Bit. Hoping for 10 Bit HD at least though, that would be pretty great on its own.

That EOS R RAW update would be crazy...so not Canon. (But I do kind of believe it.)

 

[Dustin Svehlak]

lol. Why would Canon tell you what they are doing? Like tell anyone.

It's not that hard to extract data from Canon reps. A couple years back, I had a rep all but confirm the C200 months before it released and he flat out told me about the C-Log update coming to the 5D MK IV well before it was announced.

That EOS R RAW update would be crazy...so not Canon. (But I do kind of believe it.)

Brave new world, bro!

 

[brm]

Indeed, a pro rep tipped his hand a couple of week back...(was blue skying some scenarios re: the C200's future). I'd be surprised if there isn't something substantive announced next week....

 

[NorBro]

Oh, I know...that is obvious in today's world. (Regarding this industry, I read the rumor sites everyday.)

But I was just thinking out loud that there's a difference between extracting and expecting.

___

Regarding EOS R RAW, it would be a blow for Nikon (that's another thought that crossed my mind, but I think Atomos will take what they can get!).

 

[Eric Coughlin]

It's not that hard to extract data from Canon reps. A couple years back, I had a rep all but confirm the C200 months before it released and he flat out told me about the C-Log update coming to the 5D MK IV well before it was announced.

Yeah, most Canon reps will buckle if you waterboard them. They just aren't paid enough to put up with that kind of pressure.

 

[George Loch]

The EOS R RAW rumor would make sense for the Canon campaign of the R as a B or C cam to the C200. That would make for a great combo.

 

[Gary T]

I could see Canon releasing a possibly paid firmware update to 10 bit XF-AVC for the C200 as an answer to BMD. People considering the C200 will also look at the UMP G2 on sites like B&H, and for some that decision will go in BMD's favor.

There are lots of people who are pretty excited about being able to record high quality compressed internal RAW on a $6K camera while still having the option of a great codec like ProRes. The main issue I had with the original UMP was it it wasn't great in low light, but with UMP G2 BMD is claiming 15 stops at 3200 ISO it's going to be harder to resist. One issue I have with the UMP G2 is I doubt BMD is planning ProRes RAW support, but unless it has some major unknown flaws I think the UMP G2 is going to sell like crazy. Canon, Sony, and Panasonic had better have an answer.

I think Canon is in the best shape of the big 3 since they already have a camera that records internally to a widely supported compressed RAW format. If Canon added a 10 bit XF-AVC option to the C200 it would be like a new camera to many. Of course it wouldn't do anything good for C300 MKII sales, but maybe Canon can give the C300 MK III 12-bit XF-AVC along with HFR to compete. Of course an 8-bit 422 C200 update would be more likely.

I could also see the EOS R RAW recording being true. I remember some suspecting that the C200's release was timed to compete with the EVA1, so the idea that Canon might want to steal some of Nikon's thunder doesn't surprise me very much. Yes, I know how cynical that sounds.

 

[puredrifting]

lol. Why would Canon tell you what they are doing? Like tell anyone.

It's one thing if someone has 10 million subscribers on YouTube and they want to send you every camera they make, but you - 99% of us - are completely irrelevant.

If I were the product specialist/rep you met with I would be savvy enough to know (if they don't) that you are on forums and I definitely wouldn't tell you! NDA or no NDA.



That EOS R RAW update would be crazy...so not Canon. (But I do kind of believe it.)

Canon knows me from being a contributing editor (my official title) for HD Video Pro, they know I'm not an influencer (God, I hate that term) on social media. It is a bit different because I was there to preview their new gear they will debut at NAB and this update would merely be a firmware update to an existing product, not technically a new product. Would they care about publicizing this? Probably not, but possibly, my thinking is if the C300 MKIII isn't happening yet, they would still like to sell as many new C200s as possible I would think? Adding 4:2:2 recording to the C200 could result in more sales? I'm not sure how sales are going with the C300 MKII lately and who knows if them adding the touchscreen as a package did much for sales? The C300 MKII is getting pretty long in the tooth, but the C200 is a relatively new camera that seems to still be growing in popularity so that update, if it exists, could be an actual sales point to sell new units until they can get a C300 MKIII and or C100 MKIII out the door? But it's Canon, so it's fruitless to try to hypothesize their sales strategy mindset, that's opaque.

The reps I meet with seem pretty tuned in to what's happening as far as updates and new models in the EOS Cinema line, one of them told me that if a new C300 MKII was coming at NAB or Cine Gear, they would already know about it and that they haven't heard anything about updated models. I have no idea if they know I am on the forums. I am a strong believer in honoring NDAs so if they had told me, I would neither confirm or deny but since they didn't tell me anything about a C200 update, all I can do is speculate like everyone. For me personally, I would be surprised if there are any more firmware updates for the C200, that doesn't seem like Canon's MO these days. I would be a lot more excited if they just went down the punch list from our Canon C200 Firmware Update thread than added 4:2:2 personally. For me, the C200 is a great internal RAW camera with the option to shoot non-Raw for none broadcast, none-technically demanding situations, I usually don't need 4:2:2 10-bit XF-AVC from this camera and on those rare occasions when I do, I rent a C300 MKII.

 

[DLD]

Hypothetically speaking, they could release C200 MKII with the 10-bit XAVC. They may not even have to change any of the intenals on it. The model is still selling well but they have to be, a least, a bit concerned about S1, Z6, UMP G2 and even their own EOS R, that might get an external ProRes Raw upgrade, eating into their sales.

 

[puredrifting]

Hypothetically speaking, they could release C200 MKII with the 10-bit XAVC. They may not even have to change any of the intenals on it. The model is still selling well but they have to be, a least, a bit concerned about S1, Z6, UMP G2 and even their own EOS R, that might get an external ProRes Raw upgrade, eating into their sales.

Considering the C300 MKIII, when it comes, will probably be massively overpriced like the C300 MKII was, that could be a viable strategy if they decide to price the 300 MKIII at $15k to $20k and have the C200 or C200 MKII at $7,500.00 to $9,500.00 with the massively overwished for C300 MKII codec and format.

 

[DLD]

In a three camera lineup - not counting 1DC - they were roughly double-pricing them @ $6-$12-$25 for 100, 300 and 500. Now, with 100 being offered at about $3K, they could do something similar with 200 @ $6K, 300 MKIII at $12K and C700 at $25K.

All they're missing here is 300 MKIII.

ps. I remember both 300's opening at around $16,000 but that was a different era. Not just the ILC's but camcorders too.

 

[puredrifting]

In a three camera lineup - not counting 1DC - they were roughly double-pricing them @ $6-$12-$25 for 100, 300 and 500. Now, with 100 being offered at about $3K, they could do something similar with 200 @ $6K, 300 MKIII at $12K and C700 at $25K.

All they're missing here is 300 MKIII.

ps. I remember both 300's opening at around $16,000 but that was a different era. Not just the ILC's but camcorders too.

I know what youre saying, Canon has been traditionally massively overpriced at intro, then it falls. Then the C200 upset that model by
offering internal RAW at a pretty reasonable $7,500.00. Hard to say if Canon is in the new reality about pricing and that the market
now expects more for less than even two years ago. I like your prices for the line up, but will Canon? The EOS lineup seems to be a
prestige item for Canon, not a big money maker so hard to say what they'll do.

 

[DLD]

...Hard to say if Canon is in the new reality about pricing and that the market now expects more for less than even two years ago. I like your prices for the line up, but will Canon?...

In theory, every major manufacturer who is in this business - Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji, Pentax, JVC - should have a full lineup, with the exception of the very low and the very high end but, as I had figured out years ago, the Japanese executives know a lot more about the industry than I do. That's only to be expected as this is they are paid big money to do. So, the only feasible scenario for the outside observers is to follow precedents ... except those ought to come with caveats about "past performance not being a guarantee of future results".

Having said that, my hunch is that any given sector/niche can accommodate no more than four similar models under different brand names. The Japanese have taken this further - no, no, I am not going to say the k-word - by agreeing on roughly a two year exclusivity per category per manufacturer. And, if there's even a mild overlap, then the features have to divided among the competitors to separate their corners of the market. Add a legitimate two year cycle for a new camera and one gets approximately four years between major model upgrades, i.e., from 5D MKII to 5D MKIII to 5D MKIV or GH-3 to GH-4 to GH-5.

If I am correct, then this NAB is going to be for Sony FS-7 replacement. C300 MKIII's turn should come up toward the end of this year or 2020.

PS. I saw the photo of what might be an FS-7 copy on the NAB thread, so I might be legitimately accused of backing into my conclusion, but if one looks at the previous model cycles, it all seems to fit.

PPS. In an auto world, a typical replacement cycle if 4-6 years but Z350/370 has been around for well over a decade and there are almost no concrete rumors on what Nissan has planned for it next. On the other hand, gossip on Corvette and Mustang usually reaches mythical proportions years before the official announcements.