The above comes from the guy that rents gear and sells gear.
http://www.whirlwindfilms.com/lenstestpics.htm
Here you will find frame grabs of someone using a 25mm and 35mm EJ prime lens on a 2/3 HVX500.
35mm adapter options
- Thread starter morgster
- Start date
The above comes from the guy that rents gear and sells gear.
http://www.whirlwindfilms.com/lenstestpics.htm
Here you will find frame grabs of someone using a 25mm and 35mm EJ prime lens on a 2/3 HVX500.
Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
Jeff can make a lot more money renting out an ENG camera and proper Fuji lens than he can renting out a HPX170 with adapter and lens. I respect his opinion and have done so for quite some time here on DVXuser. He's an experienced shooter... and I don't think he's biased at all. He has no reason to be in a venue like this.
While the frame grabs you posted are nice... they offer no comparison to a 35mm adapter. Therefore they really don't do anything to help morgster make a decision.
It's important to remember that two of his four cameras are 1/3" cameras... having a EJ prime lenses are fine for a 500 or 3000... but what does he do if he wants to use them with his 170 or 200?
Morgster, the reality of it is... you have to decide some of these things to help us help you. Which cameras do you ultimately want to be using a 35mm adapter on? Do you own all four of those cameras or will you be renting them? Is there a rental house in your area of Canada that has a 35mm adapter that you can rent and try? Stuff like that. Also, what's your budget. All of these items are important to make a proper and educated decision.
Dino
Veteran
Raknimar,
When I post here it is based on my being a DP for over 25 years.
I don't sell gear. I rent camera packages, primarily 2/3", as well as Fujinon wide angle zoom lenses which cost much more than a Letus adapter/relay/Nikon lens set--so logically, if I were to push anything because I'm a rental house, it would be my two Fujinon wide angles--not that a forum member who is planning to buy an adapter and lives in Canada would be likely to rent from me in San Francisco.
I have stayed on topic for a thread titled, "35mm Adapter Options". I am the first user to buy the Letus B4 Pro relay lens, and have experience shooting with the Pro35, so can offer a good perspective on 2/3" adapter options. I also own an HPX170 and know how it looks with the same adapter.
Canon EJ primes are not HD glass, the cost of a used set, if one can find one, is twice as much as an adapter/relay/SLR lens set and can't be used with palmcorders, as Joseph pointed out. So, the used 2/3" prime lens set is twice the cost and can only be used with half of the cameras the OP mentioned.
BTW, I think those screen grabs from the EJ primes looked nice, obviously open all the way, but that's normal when shooting 2/3" to get shallow DOF if a long focal length can't be used. But my original statement still stands, 2/3" DOF is not the same as 35mm SLR or Super 35 DOF, ditto FOV. The screen grabs I posted illustrated that.
martin kunert
Member
Thanks
Hey... for all here giving points of view. I recommend going to the theatre soon to watch Tetro, Francis Ford Coppola´s new feature.
It was shot with 2 F900´s and a nice set of DigiPrimes. The photography in the film is outstanding and you´ll be able to watch B&W and color moments. That´s going to be a good example of 2/3" camera as it best expression.
I also can tell you, Youth without youth has been shot with these cameras/lenses 2. So, if you haven´t seen it... rent it.
It was shot with 2 F900´s and a nice set of DigiPrimes. The photography in the film is outstanding and you´ll be able to watch B&W and color moments. That´s going to be a good example of 2/3" camera as it best expression.
I also can tell you, Youth without youth has been shot with these cameras/lenses 2. So, if you haven´t seen it... rent it.
martin kunert
Member
Shsssh...
Nobody, especially me, was arguing that 2/3" and 35mm DOF are the same. The discussion was about whether using a 35mm adapter on a 2/3" camera to get a 35mm DOF is worth the cost in time and quality. My opinion was no.
Next, when referring to manipulating saturation/vignetting, etc, I'm not talking about "off the shelf plugins". All professional footage gets graded, from commercials to $300 million features, and grading involves manipulating saturation/vignetting, etc.
Last, when I post here it's based on my being a writer/director who used Arriflex and Panavision cameras. It also includes two projects where I questioned traditional camera techniques and instead, ended up pushing filmmaking into new directions. One was MTV's FEAR, a show that created a visual style that is mimicked by every scary or supernatural reality show to this day. The second was VOICES OF IRAQ, a docu created by sending 150 DV cameras to people in Iraq. That film was released theatrically, internationally, and a print is now being preserved by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.
Dino
Veteran
Good, so we agree that 2/3" primes are an option, but different than 35mm DOF adapters as far as DOF and FOV. My point is that the difference is not subtle when viewed side by side, as Joseph also pointed out and I illustrated.
martin kunert said:
Agreed, but this grading is not a substitute for shallow DOF and its bokeh, while still a valid stylistic enhancement.
martin kunert said:
My post about being a DP was intended towards Raknimar, who accused me of pushing 35mm DOF adapters because I rent and sell them(I don't in the latter case). A baseless assertion.
Obviously you have experience with 35 and 16mm film and have tried to duplicate the look with 2/3" primes to some extent. That's great! I think movies like "Slumdog Millionaire" show that pushing filmmaking into new directions along with non-traditional camera technology can certainly pay off, as you have found through direct experience.
You have given the OP a valid, worthwhile option to consider. Unfortunately, you and Racknimar felt it necessary to be dismissive of 35mm DOF adapters.
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Dino
Veteran
Martin,
It occurs to me that your usage of a 35mm adapter was mounting it on the the end of a 2/3" ENG HD zoom lens. I have never seen good results this way. Besides the ridiculously long form factor, edge to edge focus isn't good, it's unlikely to produce sharp images overall, there's light loss from the long focal length on the zoom, chromatic aberration is likely, as is vignetting.
Perhaps you might want to look at a relay lens that was designed for use with a 35mm adapter before proclaiming all 35mm adapters as soft and difficult to work with. You might be surprised by the image quality, ease of use hand held, and small amount of light loss of the Letus relay/adapter options.
Doesn't mean you'll want to go back to a 35mm adapter, but at least you'll see what's possible with an adapter and 2/3" camera. The Letus options are faster with less frame cropping than a $27K P+S Pro35 for much less money. Cinevate's variable prime relay lens has been re-designed to be 1" shorter than before, although I don't know when it goes into production.
It occurs to me that your usage of a 35mm adapter was mounting it on the the end of a 2/3" ENG HD zoom lens. I have never seen good results this way. Besides the ridiculously long form factor, edge to edge focus isn't good, it's unlikely to produce sharp images overall, there's light loss from the long focal length on the zoom, chromatic aberration is likely, as is vignetting.
Perhaps you might want to look at a relay lens that was designed for use with a 35mm adapter before proclaiming all 35mm adapters as soft and difficult to work with. You might be surprised by the image quality, ease of use hand held, and small amount of light loss of the Letus relay/adapter options.
Doesn't mean you'll want to go back to a 35mm adapter, but at least you'll see what's possible with an adapter and 2/3" camera. The Letus options are faster with less frame cropping than a $27K P+S Pro35 for much less money. Cinevate's variable prime relay lens has been re-designed to be 1" shorter than before, although I don't know when it goes into production.
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martin kunert
Member
Dino,
You're quite right I haven't tried a 35mm with a short barrel relay lens. A short relay would alleviate may problem such as mobility and amplification of vibration. But tell me this - do you feel that shooting an image of spinning ground glass can ever match the sharpness and quality of a clean optical flow?
You're quite right I haven't tried a 35mm with a short barrel relay lens. A short relay would alleviate may problem such as mobility and amplification of vibration. But tell me this - do you feel that shooting an image of spinning ground glass can ever match the sharpness and quality of a clean optical flow?
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Truth is Martin... only washing detergent can ensure the cleanest optical flow hehe
was that your point?
Dino
Veteran
Martin,
A good quality prime or even zoom will always look sharper(at least in the center)than shooting through a diffuser. I liken shooting with a Pro35 or Ultimate to using a Tiffen Pro-Mist 1/4 or 1/2, which a lot of my clients do anyway.
My point is that you may not have seen an optimal setup for judging a 35mm adapter, if mounting it on the end of a Fuji 2/3" ENG zoom. The funny thing is, my $19K Fujinon HA series HD zoom lense is softer in the corners, and has lots of chromatic aberration--my Ultimate does not. This is where 2/3" primes(or 35mm primes) can excel over many zooms.
The other area where a good Cine prime, be it 2/3" or 35mm PL-mount, excels is lack of breathing vs. a 35mm SLR lens or many 2/3" ENG zoom lenses, as you know.
Evangelos Achillopoulos
Well-known member
As I have pointed in the past with the use of FiberScreen in my Brevis, I can, (yes I can, really) inter cut between Cine Style Zooms/Primes and Brevis/GG.relay/SLRLenses.
So I can use the 2/3 zooms and primes for night shoots and the adapter when I have the light.
This is because, FiberScreen doesn't have a diffused surface so no promist effect...
Because of that I can also blow up to 35mm (Film out) shoots that have being shot with the adapter without loosing the crispness of the image.
Also the GG.relay with the exchangeable camera mounts will be ready in two weeks that means one relay with frame sizes Super 35 (1.5 crop factor like Letus relays) / Full frame 35 (0 crop factor like Cinevate's relay) AND 2/3 mount plus 1/2 mounts cameras...
So one relay compatible with, ALL adapters, ALL frame sizes, ALL camera mounts...
So I can use the 2/3 zooms and primes for night shoots and the adapter when I have the light.
This is because, FiberScreen doesn't have a diffused surface so no promist effect...
Because of that I can also blow up to 35mm (Film out) shoots that have being shot with the adapter without loosing the crispness of the image.
Also the GG.relay with the exchangeable camera mounts will be ready in two weeks that means one relay with frame sizes Super 35 (1.5 crop factor like Letus relays) / Full frame 35 (0 crop factor like Cinevate's relay) AND 2/3 mount plus 1/2 mounts cameras...
So one relay compatible with, ALL adapters, ALL frame sizes, ALL camera mounts...
Evangelos, you're coming with a relay? Will it also be compatible with 1/3 mounts for the hpx300, for example?
Evangelos Achillopoulos
Well-known member
The Rev 3 relay is future proof that means I will start with 2/3, then I will do 1/2 almost immediately and the 1/3 will come really soon.
And yes the relay is totally modular and it is compatible with any adapter that is able to connect to a 72mm filter thread... but if that is difficult it can change also that, so its totally modular...
But to use the FiberScreens you need Brevis thought...