24p help pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!!!!!

S

socialpictures

New member
Hey there,

Im new to using my dvx100B, and editing with Final cut pro.

Ok I filmed a music video yesterday, filmed in 24p normal.

I am now trying to edit in final cut pro, and having ISSUES!!!!

I captured my footage with EASY SETUP - DV-NTSC 29.97fps

The footage in the viewer looks great, but once I put it into the timline, it looks like crap, with alot of lines.

My question is, what settings should my sequence be? Am I capturing right?

Please I know this is a total newbie question, and I'm sure once I learn how, a lightbulb will go off in my head and I'll be like DUH! But right now I am SOO confused, and just want to get started editing my music video.

ANy help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!!



Devon
 
If you are filming in 24p, you'll want to capture it as 24p, not 29.97. You need to import it to a 24fps timeline, otherwise your footage will be stretched out to fit the 29.97 timeline
 
btownproductions said:
If you are filming in 24p, you'll want to capture it as 24p, not 29.97. You need to import it to a 24fps timeline, otherwise your footage will be stretched out to fit the 29.97 timeline
Click to expand...

NO!

You still need to capture at 29.97 for 24p (not Advanced). What you can do is open the source files in Cinema Tools and reverse telecine them to 23.976. FCP will not remove a 3:2 pulldown during capture. Then edit on a 23.976 timeline (not 24).

Those lines you see are because of the pulldown and the video will look fine when played back on a TV. You can judge the quality of video on a broadcast monitor and NOT in the FCP Canvas (this is just for quick reference).
 
bigbossbmb said:
NO!

You still need to capture at 29.97 for 24p (not Advanced). What you can do is open the source files in Cinema Tools and reverse telecine them to 23.976. FCP will not remove a 3:2 pulldown during capture. Then edit on a 23.976 timeline (not 24).

Those lines you see are because of the pulldown and the video will look fine when played back on a TV. You can judge the quality of video on a broadcast monitor and NOT in the FCP Canvas (this is just for quick reference).
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was just rounding up to 24fps instead of typing out 23.976 for the timeline, it's a preset option in most NLE's as far as I know. I always use premiere, since I'm on a pc, so I'm not 100% familliar with FCP because I haven't used it since school. But since I've gotten my HVX I always use the preset settings for capturing 24p, not 29.97, since 29.97 isn't the framerate I'm editing at.
 
Good god, I hear all this stuff aboot how good FCP is and it has trouble figuring out the pulldown candances? Tsk tsk tsk...

Anyway, with premiere and avid I edit 24p regular in a 29.976 timeline and capture it as 29.976, seeing as thats the whole point of 24p...
 
You can do a reverse telecine by highlighting the clips in your browser and going to tools cinema tools reverse telecine.
 
I'd strongly suggest recapturing at the correct rate. Probably spent less time than messing around with changing settings in the timeline.
 
I'm not sure why all the confusion above.

you shot in 24P, correct? not 24PA?

the lines you are seeing is the pulldown to conform it to 29.97. you edit this footage in a normal 29.97 progressive timeline. you can remove the pulldown in cinema tools.

placing 24P footage in a 29.97 timeline does not mess with the footage at all. it sounds like you captured it correctly to begin with.

I don't think the interlaced lines will be noticeable on a tv.

but in the future, if you want to edit in a 23.97 timeline, shoot 24PA. when capturing 24PA, choose the fcp capture preset for advanced pulldown removal. don't change FPS setting in the capture preset. it needs to be left at 29.97 since that's what the tape is playing back, and final cut needs to be able to remove the correct frames.

search the forum, there is countless info on this subject.

***sorry, just realized I repeated what bigbossbmb said. I missed his post the first time through.
 
make sure that your sequence settings match the capured footage settings.

all footage shot at 24p is recorded in the camera as 29.97 - both 24pN and 24pA. The 24pA footage is captured as true 24p only if advanced pulldown removal is checked before capturing. Otherwise the footage is 29.97 and should look normal on a 29.97 timeline.
 
My understanding (in agreement with Mr Bennett, and gleaned from the FCP help guide) is that 24p should be cap'd at 29.97 and edited in a 29.97 timeline. It's only 24PA that needs to be cap'd with advanced pulldown. I've done it that way for a couple of dozen projects, so if that's wrong someone please correct me asap!
If you're seeing lines, are you sure they're not from interlacing? That should be rectified by de-interlacing your final cut in a new sequence through nesting your edit sequence.
 
If you're looking at it that way, you're looking at it a bit backwards.

You should know how you're going to edit before you shoot.

If you're going to edit as 24p, then you should shoot 24pA. And you should pretty much always edit as 24p.

If you're going to edit as 29.97 -- which you should really only do if you're mixing with 30p, or with 60i that you want to keep AS 60i -- then shoot 24p standard.

So, don't worry about "I shot X, so I should edit X" -- the truth is, you can edit either scheme as either 24p or 60i; some software (*ahem* FCP *ahem*) makes it more onerous to edit 24p standard as 24p, but it can still be done -- worry about how you're going to edit first, and then shoot accordingly.
 
There is alot of confusion about this issue.

24p is always recorded to tape as 29.97. For that matter, so is 24pA (although some frames are flagged for removal later on).

It's similiar to when you shoot 24fps with a motion picture camera and transfer it to video. The video is at 29.97. There is a 3/2 pulldown happening during the transfer process.

Same with 24p in the DVX - except it all happens in the camera. You get the look of 24fps on video.

You would only need to edit in true 24fps if you were planning to output to film in the end, which projects at 24fps. i.e. - one frame of video = one frame of film.

In this instance, you would shoot 24pA and capture with advanced pulldown removal to make it true 24fps. You would edit this on a true 24fps timeline.

If you are finishing on video there is no need to do this - stay in the 29.97 world. You will still get the 24p look.
 
No, I fundamentally disagree. There's no reason at all anymore to edit 24p footage as 29.97 (UNLESS, as stated above, you're MIXING it with 30p, or with 60i that you want to keep as 60i). It doesn't make anything better and it makes several things worse.

You can't make a 24p DVD if you edit as 29.97 -- at least not without a serious quality hit. And you WANT to make 24p DVDs -- you save space on the disc, allowing for higher bitrates or more content. You won't have interlacing on a progressive display. And any DVD player will play the content just fine to an interlaced TV (it will automatically insert pulldown as it plays).

You also can't deliver 24p content for the web, without the same hits, and with bandwidth issues, why would you want to deliver as 29.97 or 30 fps?

And, most importantly, if you edit as 29.97 and render as 60i, anything you add -- text, transitions, motion graphics, whatever -- will have a timebase of 59.94 and will move/be animated accordingly, clashing with the motion of the underlying 24p footage. You should keep everything as 24p.

You can see this effect -- and it isn't pretty -- in many low-budget TV commercials, and also in older TV shows, shot on film, and edited as 29.97 -- the text credits look terrible, and transitions -- particularly fades -- seem choppy, becuase the time signatures just don't match.

AND, you're constantly worrying about which pulldown you shot. Why bother?

If you edit as 24p, you avoid all of the problems above, you use less of your computer's resources, and you STILL have all the output options, so if you want to print to 29.97 tape, you still can. But there's no reason to work in an interlaced environment in this day and age. Insert it LATER if you need to, but don't hassle with it until you have to.

(The DVX also embeds flags into 24p standard footage, so that pulldown, too, can be removed automatically if the NLE is aware of it.)
 
I am preparing myself to a shoot long documentary with the DVX100B and I would like to have the best results with the 24p mode. I don't know yet if it will finish on film or on video but it doesn't seems to be an issue. The other thing is that I will use archives, B-Roll etc that will probably be at 29.97fps, does it matter and how complicated will it be to integrate to my 24p footage? The questions that I am asking myself is should I go 24p normal or 24p advance and what does it implicate?
 
It depends on the other footage and what you want to do with it. You say it's 29.97, but is that 30p or 60i?

If it's 30p, you have little choice -- you'll have to edit on a 60i timeline. You can't effectively convert 30p to 24p or vice versa; it won't look good.

If it's 60i, then you have a choice -- you can covert that footage to 24p and edit as 24p -- in which case you'd shoot 24pA -- or if you want the 60i to stay as 60i, you can edit on a 60i timeline, in which case you'd shoot 24p standard.

But know what you want to do before you shoot.
 
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