C500: 1D-C Users

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1DC user thread. The only Cinema camera of its kind.

The 1D-C opens up new possibilities never before possible!

"Canon has asked for feedback on the 1Dc" ...so add your requests in this thread


LAST UPDATED: 2014-March-28, Friday


Firmware update requests list:

1. Live-Wave forms - in real time, onscreen even during record (at present, even the histogram disappears during record)
2. Zebras (all the usual flavors)

3. Peak Focus >> I want peak focus during filming( may be 1:1 pixel mapping of the display and the señor will do to reduce cpu load), peak focus is available before video start, just not available during filming
4. More features added to button customization (i.e. C user settings toggle assignable to any user button) - Also, be able to change "C" modes without leaving live-view.
5. Picture style with the same color palette as C-Log, yet can be edited in the Picture Style Editor. Maybe a Wide DR version that is able to get more DR than an editable picture style.

6. Playback over HDMI when in mirroring. (having to disable mirroring to give your director playback on monitor is the absolute biggest pain in the butt with this camera!!)
7. Overlays available over hdmi when in mirroring

8. 4K 30p (or 60p if possible...but at least 30p would give us a tad slomo at full rez)
9. Better implementation of the WFT-E6 with remote control during video(with iPad or android device) more like XA20 will be already very good, remote is available on window OS or Mac OSX computers only at the moment ("I rented one for a pilot I shot with the camera and gave up on it during day 1...too finicky for my taste..maybe better with new firmware?? this was just before NAB" - Ryan P. Kelly )




10. Raw 1080 s35/ff35, or at least 10bit in 1080.
11. 48/50/60p s35 (but as sharp)
12. If the camera has high bit rate raw stills, can it also do higher bit rate video, like 10bit?
13. Mirror stays locked up when in video and time-lapse modes. This both improves shutter life, and allows operating in silence (no mirror slap) "framerate options such as 1fps for timelapse without wearing down the shutter. In the 1Dc this makes especially much sense, because of 4k frames and a solid codec."
14. Anamorphic... Shoot in square format crop, rather than the wide screen. Gives format and lens options, would be ideal for Anamorphic lenses.
15. White Balance preset for "Warm Fluorescent", to compensate for orange light which has a green spike. Useful for on the fly shooting in docu's.




16. This is a new one, but would be a big helpful option: An option that will double and/or triple the shutter speed when switching to stills mode from c-log video mode.
Why?: Since C-log has more reach into the highlights, when I switch to photo mode and snap a picture, I often get blown highlights. Having this option, which could be turned on/off, would allow seamless switching between stills and cinema modes.

17. Syncro-scan feature to adjust shutter to computer/TV screens, fluorescents, LEDs, and cellphones and reduce flicker or rolling bars.

18. No overlays when in video mode and not recording. Currently, when not recording, there is a white square overlaid the video. It is distracting while trying to compose a shot.

19. Improve CMOS "jello" in 4K mode.

20. s16 or 2/3" mode?

21. No delay in HDMI out.



Updates for the next version (1D-C MarkII):
(feel free to vote things off this list. These are merely commentary, and do not relate to the current 1dc. But just as the DVX100 had many updates including a lens swap and power zoom swap, the 1DC future is out there, somewhere.)
1c. 10bit or higher
2c. No mirror and prism and dslr metering systems. Replace all of that with an high rez accurate color EVF. (Then make a 1D-X 4k, for the hybrid people, since that is merely a firmware alteration?)
3c. global shutter (or improve existing cmos performance with firmware update?)
4c. video/audio outs on the top of the camera, so there is not wires sticking in your face when shooting shoulder mount. A sweet spot for I/O could also exists on the back.
Others
5c. Dual Pixel auto focus in liveview mode.(Most important) like the 70D and c100

6c. 6K or 8K


C-LOG: is less than ideal for backlit subjects. Yet not using C-log reduces apparent dynamic range. may not matter if 10bit is enabled, but c-log in 8bits is limited with back lit low contrast subjects. Can there be an alternate 8bit c-log which caters to tonality in the darker half of the image, yet maintains the same dynamic range? Or would it be easier to just enable 10bit recording? Is there a better solution?



TIPS:
- "...you CAN trigger video recording by using the WFT-E6 unit, as well as adjusting exposure settings and live preview (2-3fps), the same as 1D X." - MarvinHello, NOTE: remote video start stop only work with PC/Mac with EOS utility installed connect via wifi or Lan
- "...Gauging C-Log exposure through EVF or Ext Monitor: use View assist on the output."

Known Issues and Potential Issues under debate:
1x. Oil spots on sensor when shooting high fps. Mirror splats oil. Canon can fix this. (may only effect early models)
2x. Black frame on first photo ( i have experienced this issue even at slower shutter speeds - James0b57) (note: sending to Canon for a fix, we'll see what they say. EDIT: canon fixed issue.)
3x. Early serial numbers get postage paid and free fix on an auto focus issue.



(Original post: I haven't found much in the way of 1D-C interaction between users. I am going to start this thread here for an ongoing conversation about using this camera.

Before I get into it, I noticed that the mods have this forum specified as "Cine EOS", but subtitled as C100,C300,C500. Does that mean I should put this thread in the Canon FF35 forum?

Since the 1D-C is priced as a Cine camera, having the camera on this forum will allow me to judge it as such. Whereas on the ff35 forum, it is considered an over priced product that does not meet the dslr user pricing standards. While I am excited about the 4k BMC, raw 5D, and other budget developments, I still would like to see a "Cine dslr" develop into a mature product, and the 1D-C is the only camera that has begun to cater to that idea. I would like to see it evolve into it's own, and not just be firmware alone.

I am open to whatever the mods think is best.
Thanks)
 
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I agree that 1D C being in the Cinema camera category should be here rather than under DSLRs.

I know of a few films being shot with the 1D C.
 
Just wrapped a MV shoot with 1D C, shot entirely in 1080p60, with ISO range from 1600 to 6400. the results were very good.

Also I heard someone in CR forum mention that a Canon technician told him the new firmware might have worse bugs and suggested him to wait for the next update.
 
Filmic seems to be the holy grail of digital imagery. But that means many things to many people. Now that digital is maturing, I find myself comparing cameras less with the ideal of film.

The 1D-C does not look filmic to me. Though, I feel it can. But it's default imaging has a real rich and saturated look. Especially the still jpegs(vs. video)...


(original jpeg still, not post processed)
 
Seems the mids are pulled in to get that richness. As highlights come up, they don't seem to roll off as smoothly as I would like, but considering the richness in the mids, I can understand. Still getting great results.



(original jpeg still, not post processed)
 
The video comes close, but has a slightly harder time with highlights and shadows, yet still renders nice images.


1dc_IPBframe not really a torture test here. I will look around for an example of highlight rendering. I find highlights are important when shooting reality, because most people do not powder their face, and the quality of light is not always as softer as may be needed, and those peaks on the face get hot real fast.

I touch under exposed, but wanted to leave the file ungraded.
 
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I am trying to distinguish the reason behind the difference between the jpegs and the video. Is the codec doing it all (compression)? or is there some other reason, as well? I was playing around with C-Log, and it reaches farther into the highlights than a jpeg still in neutral style. Jpeg stills actually blow out at the same time as the video, it just does it slightly more graceful.

Overall, I really like the look coming straight out of the camera. It is gorgeous and rich. If filmic, it reminds me of those clean highly saturated slide films, like Velvia 50 (if it were 8bit), but while I like film (more so the idea of it), I have never really seen the value of chasing the 'film look' except in cases of nostalgia.

Seeing as the mids are so heavy, there is some wiggle room to change the curve, giving brighter mids (even borrowing a bit from the shadows) and smoother roll off into the highlights. This is something I could not do on previous dslr's, because there was not enough DR to justify the trade off. The 1D-C has the extra stoppage (latitude, if you will). It makes a less saturated look, and since the highlights are lighter, there is the look of less DR, at a glance.

Anyone been playing with the image? What are your solutions?
 
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I realize this is a bit unrealistic, but wonder why there isn't a picture style that reaches into the highlights, like C-Log, but not be so flat. Maintaining contrast, but smoother highlight rolloff.


Because while I can usually control my frame, there are times I wish I had a bit more graceful blowout...

Here is a starting frame...

1dc_framehairspray by onesielaff, on Flickr

but then the background changes...

1dc_blowout by onesielaff, on Flickr

...and just for kicks, here is the character leaving frame...

1dc_blowout1 by onesielaff, on Flickr
 
Nice couple of images James, thanks for sharing.

I too miss the Wide DR profile that I had on the C100. It puts black back to zero and has the same 800% (or 12 stops) as Canon Log, but with less data reserved for roll off. I think in a world of compromises where you want something "pretty much done" in camera, the Wide DR should be an option on the 1Dc. I wonder if there is a technical limitation involved...

I also think that it's sub optimal that I need to be at ISO400 or higher with Canon Log on the 1Dc. That would probably be the same with Wide DR though.

But, your examples are obviously not Canon Log (you say they are ungraded), so what are we looking at here? What are your go to settings in this environment?
 
AndreeOnline said:
Nice couple of images James, thanks for sharing.

I too miss the Wide DR profile that I had on the C100. It puts black back to zero and has the same 800% (or 12 stops) as Canon Log, but with less data reserved for roll off. I think in a world of compromises where you want something "pretty much done" in camera, the Wide DR should be an option on the 1Dc. I wonder if there is a technical limitation involved...

I also think that it's sub optimal that I need to be at ISO400 or higher with Canon Log on the 1Dc. That would probably be the same with Wide DR though.

But, your examples are obviously not Canon Log (you say they are ungraded), so what are we looking at here? What are your go to settings in this environment?
Click to expand...

You are right. I am using Neutral (0-2-20)
 
If you read the 1D C review by Carousel, you'll find a C-Log comparison between 1D C and C300, 1D C is obviously flatter (seems to raise black level higher).

I've been shooting exclusively in C-log with 1D C and I love the way it renders colours, skintone is also somewhat smoother.
 
Anyone here used the 1D-C for chromakey work in 4K? I don't think we can stretch to Red or Alexa (and it's a Portrait shoot).
 
marvinhello said:
If you read the 1D C review by Carousel, you'll find a C-Log comparison between 1D C and C300, 1D C is obviously flatter (seems to raise black level higher).
Click to expand...

I've heard something similar earlier. As recent as yesterday I compared two clips between C100 Log and 1Dc Log in FCPX. I can't say that there is any major shift, if any, to black setup. These were normal clips and not technical clips for testing, but looking at the histogram it was very close.

I think this needs to be investigated more closely to know for sure. There might be other differences other than black point though...
 
MattDavis said:
Anyone here used the 1D-C for chromakey work in 4K? I don't think we can stretch to Red or Alexa (and it's a Portrait shoot).
Click to expand...

No problem for chroma key, in 4K it's internal 422 sampling. I tried to key out a certain colour and it's pretty clean due to the light compression.
 
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