16 gig cards next summer

ozduc said:
I haven't seen anyone on here holding a gun to your head saying you have to buy this camera.



You're not with this camera so why do you bother to complain about it? Get yourself a HDV camera that you can pop tapes in and out of all day long.

So tell me this. Are all these jobs you speak of hypothetical, or are you actually out in the field shooting 5 hours of footage a day?
If you are, what camera are you shooting with and what format?
Do you own a camera now, if so what type?
Is this a hobby or are you getting paid to shoot 5 hours of footage a day?
If it is a hobby then I can totally understand your reluctance to jump on the P2 bandwagon as it is an expensive proposition.
It is not the be all and end all as far as acquisition and workflow but for some people it is a much better solution than tape based formats and for those who are making money from their equipment purchases it seems to be worth the initial expense.
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I know no one is forcing me to buy this camera and I'm in no major hurry. So there's no fire here. I'm just expressing my opnion about the current state of P2 cards and everyone's breaking balls about it.

I work more as an editor than a shooter, so my DVX will keep me going for a while longer. I want an HVX because I can attract more clients with an HVX than a DVX. I also plan to work on several personal projects and I would like to have the best images possible, and the slo mo is hot. But I would rather save a few grand by waiting a bit longer for a practical solution. That's my plan and I'm sticking with it.
 
Abaddon said:
I know no one is forcing me to buy this camera and I'm in no major hurry. So there's no fire here. I'm just expressing my opnion about the current state of P2 cards and everyone's breaking balls about it.

I work more as an editor than a shooter, so my DVX will keep me going for a while longer. I want an HVX because I can attract more clients with an HVX than a DVX. I also plan to work on several personal projects and I would like to have the best images possible, and the slo mo is hot. But I would rather save a few grand by waiting a bit longer for a practical solution. That's my plan and I'm sticking with it.
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You mentioned that a 32GB P2 card at a decent price would be to your liking. That would give you 80 minutes of 720/24pN. The current version of the FS-100 gives you 90-100 minutes of DVCPROHD. Granted, it's not in native framerates right now, but it seems to fit your field needs. (v. 3 coming before year's end WILL provide native recording.)

Why don't your rent an HVX and an updated FS-100 for a couple of days? I'm sure it will help you greatly, either to solidify your "plan" or it may tell you what you want and need are available now.
 
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I shoot everything from short films to live performances. And I almost always go over at least one hour of shooting. In order to get all the footage I need, I'd have to use several 8GB cards, and I'm not interested in breaking the bank on storage.
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For short films, commercials, and corporate videos I'm sorry but I really don't get you. On all those things you need many people on the set, sound guys, ADs, ect and both those don't yeild a huge amount of footage at a time. I really find it hard to believe that, on such things, you can't find someone to offload to a laptop of the 40 minutes of recording time two 8 gigers will get you isn't enough. Can you explain your workflow because my productions are certainly not lavished but if I can get someone to operate a boom mike then I can certainly find someone to offload to a laptop. I mean, I assume your not doing all this stuff in your backyard with just you alone. Also, even on a fast moving short film or corporate video, the amount of footage recorded isn't very high.

I don't care if it's a Cineporter, Firestore, or whatever. If it can record top quality footage and all frame rates, and hold a lot of data, I'll be happy with it. If the Firestore were to release a new version before or at the same time as the Cineporter, then I'd probably get that. Either way, I know it'll be a few months before I buy anything.
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Once again you really should do your research. The FS-100 is already out and can already give you 100 minutes of footage. By the end of November, it'll be able (through a free firmware upgrade) to offer native framerates and thus 250 minutes of 720p 24pN footage.

I'm sure it's not just wedding photographers who are complaining. I've been hearing the same complaint over and over again for a long time.
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I go on numerous forums and honestly I hear it mostly from people who don't own the camera and havn't experience the workflow (in fact I hear it from you alone more than pretty much all the others combined).

I know a lot of you guys like to hype up the camera, but let's be real. P2 cards are no way near as practical to use as tape. There's no way you can argue against that. Yes, the images recorded onto P2 are far superior to tape, but I'm talking about practical storage.
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They're practical in different ways which you'd know if you'd actually tried the workflow. Tape is certainly cheaper but practical, I don't think so. Not having to worry about capturing, not having to wear down your tape heads or get a deck, being able to look at clips during a shoot, being able to delete stuff on the fly, and having clip files when you archive so you know where your files are all make P2 much more practical in my mind.

If you can tell me how I can take full advantage of the HVX without spending thousands in P2 cards, offload devices, etc., then I'd love to hear it. Maybe there's a trick to it that I'm not aware of.
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*cough* FS-100 *cough*

Abaddon, people only have issues with your lack of experience or understanding. You apparently don't know what's availible as far as the Firestore is concerned nor to you really seem to appreciate how P2 workflow goes (honestly, if you're shooting non-stop for more than a 40 minutes with anything but a documentary or event shooting then something is very wrong). Learn about workflow before you bash it.
 
DavidBeier said:
Once again you really should do your research. The FS-100 is already out and can already give you 100 minutes of footage. By the end of November, it'll be able (through a free firmware upgrade) to offer native framerates and thus 250 minutes of 720p 24pN footage.
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Not be a stickler, but the next FS-100 upgrade will be $39, and that is a drop in the bucket. :)

Carry on.
 
I did a job that I couldn't have done with tape the other day ...

I have my colleague sit in the car between jobs, sorting shots on the laptop and removing gash ones for the client to view when we arrive at our next shoot. In fact in the two hour journey we had a timeline ready to view. And we had back ups of the footage, DVD rushes and no drop-outs.

If I'd have actually shot tape, and had managed to perform a capturing operating in a car (not easy given the room) - it would have taken well over an hour to capture the footage.

An extreme example, but we've been doing this for three weeks thanks to P2.
 
i'll admit, i thought the limited space on the cards would be a hassle but since a majority of my shoots will be commercials and short films it is no where as bad as i thought when i actually tried it out.

p2 is the bomb. i'm never going back to tape. :thumbup:
 
unfiltered said:
You mentioned that a 32GB P2 card at a decent price would be to your liking. That would give you 80 minutes of 720/24pN. The current version of the FS-100 gives you 90-100 minutes of DVCPROHD. Granted, it's not in native framerates right now, but it seems to fit your field needs. (v. 3 coming before year's end WILL provide native recording.)

Why don't your rent an HVX and an updated FS-100 for a couple of days? I'm sure it will help you greatly, either to solidify your "plan" or it may tell you what you want and need are available now.
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I'm in no hurry now. I'd rather wait until the new Firestore is released.
 
DavidBeier said:
For short films, commercials, and corporate videos I'm sorry but I really don't get you. On all those things you need many people on the set, sound guys, ADs, ect and both those don't yeild a huge amount of footage at a time. I really find it hard to believe that, on such things, you can't find someone to offload to a laptop of the 40 minutes of recording time two 8 gigers will get you isn't enough. Can you explain your workflow because my productions are certainly not lavished but if I can get someone to operate a boom mike then I can certainly find someone to offload to a laptop. I mean, I assume your not doing all this stuff in your backyard with just you alone. Also, even on a fast moving short film or corporate video, the amount of footage recorded isn't very high.
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I would still need the laptop though, or someone who ownes one. And that's an extra expense. I manage to shoot most of my projects with a very small crew and sometimes with just myself. Again, I need a camera to suit my needs will all types of productions. A simple storage solution will cancel out all the nonsense of the current P2 situation. One updated Firestore or a Cineporter and I don't have to worry about laptops, assistants, P2 stores, low storage cards, none of that crap. Why would I give myself the headache when I can just wait a few months?

Once again you really should do your research. The FS-100 is already out and can already give you 100 minutes of footage. By the end of November, it'll be able (through a free firmware upgrade) to offer native framerates and thus 250 minutes of 720p 24pN footage.
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Again, no rush on my part. I'll purchase the goods when they're officially on the shelves.

I go on numerous forums and honestly I hear it mostly from people who don't own the camera and havn't experience the workflow (in fact I hear it from you alone more than pretty much all the others combined).
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You're acting as if all my needs will be fulfilled with the current state of things. I've done my research so I know I will not be satisfied. Tell me how I can get by with 16GB of space when I'm shooting all day with no additional crew or storage offload capabilities.

They're practical in different ways which you'd know if you'd actually tried the workflow. Tape is certainly cheaper but practical, I don't think so. Not having to worry about capturing, not having to wear down your tape heads or get a deck, being able to look at clips during a shoot, being able to delete stuff on the fly, and having clip files when you archive so you know where your files are all make P2 much more practical in my mind.
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Not when you have to swap cards every few minutes, get an assistant, get a laptop, get an offload device, spend thousands of dollars more. Doesn't seem very practical to me. In fact, it seems like a real pain in the ass.

Abaddon, people only have issues with your lack of experience or understanding. You apparently don't know what's availible as far as the Firestore is concerned nor to you really seem to appreciate how P2 workflow goes (honestly, if you're shooting non-stop for more than a 40 minutes with anything but a documentary or event shooting then something is very wrong). Learn about workflow before you bash it.
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Again, tell me how I can get by with 8GB or 16 GB of space when I have a long shoot with no assistant, no laptop, no offload device, and no interest in spending thousands more for any of this stuff.
 
Abaddon said:
I would still need the laptop though, or someone who ownes one. And that's an extra expense. I manage to shoot most of my projects with a very small crew and sometimes with just myself. Again, I need a camera to suit my needs will all types of productions. A simple storage solution will cancel out all the nonsense of the current P2 situation.
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It's been said before. There is no ONE camera that will suit all types of productions!
There is already a storage alternative to P2 cards. i.e. firestore

Abaddon said:
You're acting as if all my needs will be fulfilled with the current state of things. I've done my research so I know I will not be satisfied. Tell me how I can get by with 16GB of space when I'm shooting all day with no additional crew or storage offload capabilities.
Again, tell me how I can get by with 8GB or 16 GB of space when I have a long shoot with no assistant, no laptop, no offload device, and no interest in spending thousands more for any of this stuff.
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Nobody has said you can. If you are not prepared to spend the money necessary then you cant play. You would be better suited to buying a JVC or canon or sony HDV camera and a box of tapes. Oh wait, then you will also have to spend thousands more to buy a HDV deck for playback and capturing.
It appears that your real gripe is the cost of doing business. If you dont have any interest in spending the money for any of "this stuff" then that is understandable but that is not the way it has come across in a lot of your previous posts.
 
Abaddon said:
I'm in no hurry now. I'd rather wait until the new Firestore is released.
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I understand you're not in a hurry to purchase anything. (You've said that a few times throughout this thread.) I made the suggestion because I feel most people should try all workflows via rentals/borrowing/using on set before making a purchase.
 
ozduc said:
It's been said before. There is no ONE camera that will suit all types of productions!
There is already a storage alternative to P2 cards. i.e. firestore



Nobody has said you can. If you are not prepared to spend the money necessary then you cant play. You would be better suited to buying a JVC or canon or sony HDV camera and a box of tapes. Oh wait, then you will also have to spend thousands more to buy a HDV deck for playback and capturing.
It appears that your real gripe is the cost of doing business. If you dont have any interest in spending the money for any of "this stuff" then that is understandable but that is not the way it has come across in a lot of your previous posts.
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I've made myself very clear.

There's no fire under my ass right now to buy a camera. So I don't need to buy a JVC, Canon, Sony, or anything else.

I'm waiting for a practical solution for me, and that time will come soon.
 
unfiltered said:
I understand you're not in a hurry to purchase anything. (You've said that a few times throughout this thread.) I made the suggestion because I feel most people should try all workflows via rentals/borrowing/using on set before making a purchase.
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I have to say I'm not in a hurry many times because people keep saying I should do this and do that. Most likely within a few months, I will own an HVX with a practical storage system.

I understand your point about trying equipment before purchasing. Since the release of the HVX, I have read reviews and watched recorded footage. I undersatnd how the camera works and I like what it can do. My only issue is with storage.

I have explained many times how I work and what my needs are. And so far, no one has been able to explain to me how I can get by with 8-16gigs of space on the type of projects I do and how I do them.

An external drive that captures all the good stuff from the camera is all I need until the cards hold a lot more space and cost a lot less.

I'm not stressing it.
 
dregenthal said:
of curiosity, what have you been using up to this point?
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This from a previous post.

Abaddon said:
I work more as an editor than a shooter, so my DVX will keep me going for a while longer. I want an HVX because I can attract more clients with an HVX than a DVX. I also plan to work on several personal projects and I would like to have the best images possible, and the slo mo is hot.
Click to expand...
 
Abaddon said:
I've just been shooting with my DVX.
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Thanks for the answer -- great camera! I had a difficult time making the change (probably more emotionally than anything else). Absolutely loved it and have often wished I kept it along with the HVX. The one thing I could always do better (other than painless extended shots) was hand held. I probably need more practice but I simply can not do hand held shots with the HVX like I could with the DVX.
 
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