AC160 1080 60p cometh

It appears the AC160 is getting this and NOT the AC130 (or HPX250)....correct? Anyone with knowledge on this?
 
What would you use this format for "HD progressive 1080/59.94p or 1080/50p format*" ? Just curious to see what you are using it for.
I assume it is nice for slow and fast motion and editing.
I am used to using 1080 30p , I do work mostly for web or DVD right now.

Thanks for your time.
 
Last edited:
There was a post recently where Panasonic said the 250 & 370 wouldn't be able to do 1080 50/60p but they were looking into future products which may. The 160 & 250 have totally different dsp's and coding so i'm not surprised there.
 
Deer Film said:
What would you use this format for "HD progressive 1080/59.94p or 1080/50p format*" ?
I am used to using 1080 30p , I do work mostly for web or DVD right now.

Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

Well, for one thing, you might use 1080p60 in a 720p60 editing project, giving you matched frame rates and lots of breathing room for center/side/top/bottom crops. Or you could record 1080p60 to use as a slo-mo (1/2 speed) in your 1080p30 project.
 
1080/60p is widely viewed as the next evolution of HDTV - it brings the frame rate of 720/60p and the frame size of 1080/60i together. It isn't a codified broadcast standard yet, but I think everyone pretty much expects that some day it will be.

The AC160 (and AF100) can already shoot a version of 1080/60p; just put it in VFR mode, set the frame rate to 60fps, and shoot away; then, in post, drop the footage on a 60p timeline and adjust the speed so you get frame-for-frame 1080/60p. The difference between what that does, and what this new firmware will offer, is that the AF100 & AC160 don't record sound when shooting 1080/60p. This new firmware says it will be compliant with "AVCHD Progressive", which is also sometimes called "AVCHD 2.0". That would mean sound recording and a "live" 1080/60p intended for playback as 60p. It would be at a max of 28mbps to comply with the AVCHD 2.0 standard (interestingly, the existing 60p mode on the AC160 & AF100 actually goes up to 35mbps).
 
Barry, you give a lot of things to think about. You said,"1080/60p is widely viewed as the next evolution of HDTV". So if I ever hope to put things on a cable tv show, you say this is the way to go in the future.
So if I am getting the ac130 (replacing) , would that be a good choice? That is the 1 thousand dollar question. I am sure I don't understand everything, but if I am going to spend money on a camera, I want it to last and able to handle the new evolution standard you talk about. I hope your not saying that our older cameras like the HMC150 and ac130 will not be excepted quality if we want to go to broadcast cable show someday. Right now it is web and DVD for me. Moving to Blueray next year. Thanks for your comments, way to much to think about.
I wonder if you can make things compliant in Vegas with exporting 1080/60p?
 
Well, 1080/60p will be the next evolution, the next thing that camcorder and television manufacturers want to sell us. But when will it be mainstream? Five years? Ten years? I have no idea. No matter when it comes, 1080/60i and 720/60p will still be valid and easily convertible to 1080/60p. So the point is, if you've got something to shoot, shoot it now -- don't wait endlessly for products to evolve. "I Love Lucy" is as watchable today as it was nearly sixty years ago when they first shot it.

As far as broadcast cable goes -- there are still many broadcast cable channels broadcasting in standard-def(!) HDV was a staple of broadcast cable for HD for quite a while. If you're talking about a top-tier channel like Discovery HD, then you'd be better off with an HPX250. But for most broadcast cable stations, I would think you're on eminently safe ground with an AC130 or AC160 for many years to come.
 
Very good points. I was watching the little rascals the other day shot in Black and White. They had a few focus problems, and other little errors, but man, it is pure laughable quality. Just like Andy Griffith. I agree, if you shoot something that is worth watching, I am sure the cable shows will work with you.
This is off subject, but watching these old movie, Andy Griffith to Hitchcock, I learn a lot about film techniques.
Thanks Barry, I always enjoy reading your comments.
Would like to see some training DVD's from you someday.
 
I was pleased to read that. One, because panasonic is responding to consumer feedback, and also due to the changes. Thanks for posting the links.
 
It's nice but the only thing I don't like is that it appears it's going to be for the AC160 only, and not the AC130.

I can see why they're not going to do it for the HPX250....the bit rate would be too high and the P2 cards would not be able to handle it. This is why the HPX250 doesn't support overcranking at 1080p. Seeing as everyone is in agreement that the electronics in the AC130 and 160 are essentially the same, I think that 1080 60p would be a welcome addition to the AC130. It's a little ridiculous actually...a few months ago I picked up a handy-cam just to take video on my baby son and it does 1080 60p without issue.

Not including this update for the AC130 is very Sony-esque...
 
Phil1076 said:
It's nice but the only thing I don't like is that it appears it's going to be for the AC160 only, and not the AC130.

I can see why they're not going to do it for the HPX250....the bit rate would be too high and the P2 cards would not be able to handle it. This is why the HPX250 doesn't support overcranking at 1080p. Seeing as everyone is in agreement that the electronics in the AC130 and 160 are essentially the same, I think that 1080 60p would be a welcome addition to the AC130. It's a little ridiculous actually...a few months ago I picked up a handy-cam just to take video on my baby son and it does 1080 60p without issue.

Not including this update for the AC130 is very Sony-esque...
Click to expand...

I tend to agree to a certain extent. Of course, the argument for 1080p60 can use the same logic as uncompressed audio (160, NOT 130) and VFR (160, NOT 130) or anything. Point is, everyone recognizes that they are two remarkably similar camcorders with a handful of differences. If you need the feature(s) of the 160 for the work you do, that's the one you buy. If you don't need them, then you don't have to pay for them and you can get a deal on the 130 for a savings of $700 to $900.

Another point to consider...as pointed out previously, 1080p is already available on the 160 (and NOT the 130) via the VFR selection that is only on the 160. All the new feature would do is making it part of the recording modes and include sound recording. So they're not really "adding" anything that's not already on the 160, they're just enhancing it. To add it to the 130 would basically be to add a feature. That's Panasonic's call, and I think that if they intend to continue differentiating between the two camcorders, it makes good business and marketing sense, and also good tech sense.

About handycams (or any consumer-grade cams) that have features not found on a professional-grade camcorder...that's really just apples and oranges. Lower quality electronics and glass and everything else on a consumer cam, and I doubt that the AVCHD recording of 1080p60 on any consumer camera would come very close to the quality on something like the AC160. You can get a consumer camera from Sony or Panasonic right now and shoot in 3D, but do we think that implementation is enough for the rigors of a professional workflow? Probably not. Same argument might be "why can't I buy an add-on 3D lens for my AC160 like I can on my 4 month old handycam?"
 
scapsinger said:
Another point to consider...as pointed out previously, 1080p is already available on the 160 (and NOT the 130) via the VFR selection that is only on the 160. All the new feature would do is making it part of the recording modes and include sound recording. So they're not really "adding" anything that's not already on the 160, they're just enhancing it. To add it to the 130 would basically be to add a feature. That's Panasonic's call, and I think that if they intend to continue differentiating between the two camcorders, it makes good business and marketing sense, and also good tech sense.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you here. A number of us have already purchased an AC130, based on what the feature set differences were between the two camcorders.

If I had known that only the 160 was going to later get an upgrade to 60p for 1080, that would have been a consideration for me in choosing which camcorder to get.

Now it seems that I am screwed. Unless I return my AC130 back to B&H under their 30 day customer satisfaction guarantee and then buy a AC160. Doing that is probably going to punish B&H, though, for something that Panasonic has done.

Sony is providing 1080 60p recording with sound on some of their cheapest consumer camcorders and point and shoot cameras now. So if Panasonic's position is that they cannot provide this update on a professional camcorder like the AC130 that costs many times more, then I am not at all happy about that.

:Drogar-Mad(DBG)::Drogar-Mad(DBG)::Drogar-Mad(DBG)::Drogar-Mad(DBG)::Drogar-Mad(DBG):

scapsinger said:
About handycams (or any consumer-grade cams) that have features not found on a professional-grade camcorder...that's really just apples and oranges. Lower quality electronics and glass and everything else on a consumer cam, and I doubt that the AVCHD recording of 1080p60 on any consumer camera would come very close to the quality on something like the AC160.
Click to expand...

That is really not any kind of applicable or pertinent point, however. The point is that Sony is providing the feature on inexpensive camcorders and point and shoot cameras that cost a small fraction of the cost of the AC130. If Sony can afford to do that, when why cannot Panasonic offer 1080 60p on a professional camcorder like the AC130?
 
Last edited:
Panasonic already put 1080 60p on many cameras as well like the older SD600/TM700 as well as the SD800 and TM900 camcorders. Heck, it's even put on the cheaper SD90/TM90 models and then you have the new Z10000 3D "prosumer" camera that is about to be released that also has 1080 60p when shooting in 2D mode. If the AC160 really is much easier to implement, then I don't blame them but it's true that if it's not really that much harder to do on the AC130 then I agree that it should get it as well. We do have until April anyway so who knows if Panasonic decides to work on it for the AC130 until then.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top