GH4 Δ n Δ m o r p h i c

R

RedChalice

Active member
Are there any relatively cheap/simple solutions to experimenting with anamorphic on a GH4 + speedbooster.. Everything I have read sounds either complicated (dual focusing, etc) or expensive.

I saw this one guys workflow where he attaches an anamorphic lens to the end of his SLR lens via mount + screws. Also the anamorphic lens has to be aligned perfectly or you get distortion.. then focus twice, etc

That all sounds like a headache..
 
I never found a cheap/simple solution. SLR Magic comes closest, I feel. In the end, the distortions... er.... effects anamorphic brings to the table were not worth all the extra work involved. But that was just me.
 
Keep in mind many big budget Hollywood movies do not shoot anamorphic. Movies like the Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy are shot with an Alexa camera at basically 4x3 3k resolution and just cropped in post to give a scope aspect ratio.

Many other big budget movies are done this way as well like Ender's Game and most movies are still mastered at 2k and have all editing and effects rendered at 2k. This is why normal 4k cropped from the GH4 works so well. the DCI standard for 4k scope is 4096x1716. Since the GH4 already shoots 4096 wide a simple crop in post to 1716 gives you the industry standard of 4k scope. The only thing you really lose out on is the unique flare look which honestly is the new DOF obsession

Just something to keep in mind.

The Gh4 already shoots with a resolution that can be cropped to 4k scope without the need of any anamorphic adapters.


A few things to think about with anamorphic.

1. The lenses and adapters tend to soften the video. anamorphic needs to be crafted with the highest quality glass and any adapter that is under $1,000.00 seriously impacts the sharpness and detail. Using an adapter means adding another layer of glass in front of the sensor.

2. Anamorphic is rather hard to shoot with since the image on the monitor is squashed. This makes it not only harder to tell if things really are in focus but to judge framing and composition.

3. Even the most expensive anamorphic lenses tend to be slower lenses. Something that will make many m43 shooter cringe even more. SLR Magic even highly recommends to stop down the lens a bit or else you will not get optimal quality. Basically no anamorphic adapter should ever be used fully open. Get ready to either light the crap out of your project or deal with a lot of noise.

4. Anamorphic works really well on RAW cameras but using anamorphic on a heavily compressed video will make those artifacts pop out even more. Basically 4:2:2 becomes 8:2:2 because you are doubling the horizontal size of the color sampling. In essence you have 4:1:1. Macro blocks in the video will get larger as well. A 4x4 macro block turns into a 8x4 macro block. If you want to shoot anamorphic it would really be best to at least use an external recorder but even then the color is still basically 4:1:1. Now because the affordable anamorphic lenses are so hideous and soft many probably can't really tell the difference anyway.
 
Exactly, Thomas. I look at it as old tech they had to use to fix a problem (taking up more of the film/improving resolution) and in doing so caused a ton of unwelcomed aberrations. Now it is a LOOK, like vinyl is to audio.

Way too many draw backs compared to the couple of "effects" it creates. And I was all ready to jump in lens-wise until I thought it through.
 
wwjd said:
Way too many draw backs compared to the couple of "effects" it creates.
Click to expand...

Despite what the naysayers say, anamorphic glass delivers a unique effect whether you like it or not. You are after all playing with optics, so it stands to reason there would be what some might call aberrations, and others consider to be the whole point. As to cropping the avengers etc., of course they're cropped. They are filled with CGI and who would want to green screen with anamorphics anyway....

I've seen a lot of movies lately that were shot with anamorphic lenses, usually real-filmed stories, and the question you need to ask your self is, do I like it, and do I want it.
If you do, there are a load of options from relatively cheap optics requiring clamps, to the already mention SLR adapters (which aren't that big of a deal when it comes to focusing) and then you get the expensive dedicated lenses. And more expensive doesn't necessarily mean better.

But it does require time and some experience to get the best out of any of the anamorphic options, and if you don't want to put in the effort, I'd steer clear (and crop :thumbsup:).
 
Thomas Smet said:
4. Anamorphic works really well on RAW cameras but using anamorphic on a heavily compressed video will make those artifacts pop out even more. Basically 4:2:2 becomes 8:2:2 because you are doubling the horizontal size of the color sampling. In essence you have 4:1:1. Macro blocks in the video will get larger as well. A 4x4 macro block turns into a 8x4 macro block. If you want to shoot anamorphic it would really be best to at least use an external recorder but even then the color is still basically 4:1:1. Now because the affordable anamorphic lenses are so hideous and soft many probably can't really tell the difference anyway.
Click to expand...


One thing to point out, you don't need to stretch the video back out, you could shoot 2k or 4k wide anamorphic and squish the top and bottom back down, this might (almost) act as a better pixel subsampling. Similar to what people claim where they can make 4:2:2 HD by sampling 4:2:0 4k down. It's all theories and ideas to me right now, as some of you may have seen I'm fooling with a cheap Century 1.33x convertor. I'm sure it won't produce great results, but it will allow me to test some things and see if crop or squeeze is best for me.

As far as shooting with a distorted viewfinder, many of the third party monitors/recorders are building in anamorphic squeeze, so you will be able to see normally, yet still record the unsqueezed camera signal.
 
Quick question: What's the resolution when recording GH4 4K anamorphic footage onto an Atomos Shogun via HDMI 10-bit? Is it 3328x2496 or 3840x2160 or 2880x2160? Something else?
 
Thomas Smet said:
Keep in mind many big budget Hollywood movies do not shoot anamorphic. Movies like the Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy are shot with an Alexa camera at basically 4x3 3k resolution and just cropped in post to give a scope aspect ratio.

Many other big budget movies are done this way as well like Ender's Game and most movies are still mastered at 2k and have all editing and effects rendered at 2k. This is why normal 4k cropped from the GH4 works so well. the DCI standard for 4k scope is 4096x1716. Since the GH4 already shoots 4096 wide a simple crop in post to 1716 gives you the industry standard of 4k scope. The only thing you really lose out on is the unique flare look which honestly is the new DOF obsession

Just something to keep in mind.

The Gh4 already shoots with a resolution that can be cropped to 4k scope without the need of any anamorphic adapters.


A few things to think about with anamorphic.

1. The lenses and adapters tend to soften the video. anamorphic needs to be crafted with the highest quality glass and any adapter that is under $1,000.00 seriously impacts the sharpness and detail. Using an adapter means adding another layer of glass in front of the sensor.

2. Anamorphic is rather hard to shoot with since the image on the monitor is squashed. This makes it not only harder to tell if things really are in focus but to judge framing and composition.

3. Even the most expensive anamorphic lenses tend to be slower lenses. Something that will make many m43 shooter cringe even more. SLR Magic even highly recommends to stop down the lens a bit or else you will not get optimal quality. Basically no anamorphic adapter should ever be used fully open. Get ready to either light the crap out of your project or deal with a lot of noise.

4. Anamorphic works really well on RAW cameras but using anamorphic on a heavily compressed video will make those artifacts pop out even more. Basically 4:2:2 becomes 8:2:2 because you are doubling the horizontal size of the color sampling. In essence you have 4:1:1. Macro blocks in the video will get larger as well. A 4x4 macro block turns into a 8x4 macro block. If you want to shoot anamorphic it would really be best to at least use an external recorder but even then the color is still basically 4:1:1. Now because the affordable anamorphic lenses are so hideous and soft many probably can't really tell the difference anyway.
Click to expand...

Am I understanding correctly that I can shoot 4k with SLR lenses in 4x3, and then stretch the image in FCPX? if so, how can manipulate the 4x3 image into cinemascope using FCPX?
 
RedChalice said:
Am I understanding correctly that I can shoot 4k with SLR lenses in 4x3, and then stretch the image in FCPX? if so, how can manipulate the 4x3 image into cinemascope using FCPX?
Click to expand...

You crop in FCP X to get a cinemascope look, not stretch. Stretch is for when you shoot actual anamorphic footage.
 
Jaime Valles said:
Quick question: What's the resolution when recording GH4 4K anamorphic footage onto an Atomos Shogun via HDMI 10-bit? Is it 3328x2496 or 3840x2160 or 2880x2160? Something else?
Click to expand...

Max vertical resolution out of the HDMI port on the GH4 is 2160. So it will be a 4:3 image with black bars on either side. So essentially 2880x2160. Squeeze and crop to 2.4:1 and you're left with 2592x1080 at the end of the day. Basically, 2.6K anamorphic. Not a big hit on resolution. Far outweighed by the benefit of shooting on the Shogun, specifically bit depth, chroma subsampling and compression. Those things are more important to me than pixels. Especially considering that shooting in cam gets you 3K anamorphic. You're still in this weird area where you're downscaling for a 2K finish or upscaling for a 4K finish.

RedChalice said:
Am I understanding correctly that I can shoot 4k with SLR lenses in 4x3, and then stretch the image in FCPX? if so, how can manipulate the 4x3 image into cinemascope using FCPX?
Click to expand...

No, he's saying shoot in regular DCI 4K with spherical lenses and crop vertically to give you an anamorphic aspect ratio without dealing of the hassle shooting with anamorphic lenses.

Shooting 4:3 mode would be useless if you were going to shoot on spherical lenses and just crop. You'd end up with a 3328x1394 image, when you could shoot DCI 4K and get a 4086x1716. There's no sense opening the sensor up further vertically if you aren't going to use it. Not to mention you'd be narrowing down your depth of field even further by cropping in on the sensor, making you choose wider and wider lenses.

Of course, if you want to toy around with anamorphic lenses, that's no solution.

To answer your original question, give a look at the SLR Magic Rangefinder:
http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/08/...ally-shoot-anamorphic-for-factual-programmes/

You can put this in front of any lens (not just anamorphic) and focus using the gear ring. It solves breathing and short focus throws. It also means you only need to single focus.

Here's a thread about it here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...-amp-gives-ANY-lens-a-geared-240%B0-cine-ring!
 
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woudnt using anamorphic lens on DCI 4k, then reducing in post to 2.40:1 effectively give you more detail due to more pixels, then simply cropping? croping you get the 1707-ish, but squishing would allow more detail from the 2160 INTO the final of 1707...... like how 4k down to 1080 looks more detailed than 1080. That's my theory anyway.
 
Using an anamorphic lens on the GH4 not only provides an anamorphic lens look (which is a LOT more than just some lens flares) but also yields a higher resolution image. The extracted image would be a 2.67:1 frame. The Odyssey7Q+ will not only record this signal directly from the GH4, but will also properly display it both on its OLED screen as well as output the de-squeezed image to other monitors on set. By properly displaying it, I mean that the Odyssey7Q+ gives the option of zooming in to the 4x3 image area within the 16x9 frame and then de-squeezing this. The result is that the corrected image fills the screen left-right. Other systems would only show a small rectangle in the center of the screen. If one wishes to crop to the popular 2.39:1 frame, the Odyssey7Q+ also offers this as an option. When monitoring a de-queezed image, all of the other monitoring functions such as LUTs, Pixel Zoom, Focus Assist, Flase Color, etc. continue to function. The Odyssey7Q+ is the only onboard monitor/recorder to offer all of this functionality.
 
Now, if only the focus through convertors were a little cheaper. This whole anamorphic thing is probably something you need to play with before just breaking out and using it. That's why I went the road I did with a cheap Century Optics unit and my camera only does 16:9 anyway which will get me close (and bigger than DCI) so I can crop the last few pixels down to 2.40:1/2.39:1

I though I read that the GH4 can squeeze/stretch the anamorphoic image for it's monitor outputs too, but I might be wrong and thinking of a different camera.
 
LochnessDigital said:
Max vertical resolution out of the HDMI port on the GH4 is 2160. So it will be a 4:3 image with black bars on either side. So essentially 2880x2160. Squeeze and crop to 2.4:1 and you're left with 2592x1080 at the end of the day. Basically, 2.6K anamorphic. Not a big hit on resolution. Far outweighed by the benefit of shooting on the Shogun, specifically bit depth, chroma subsampling and compression. Those things are more important to me than pixels. Especially considering that shooting in cam gets you 3K anamorphic. You're still in this weird area where you're downscaling for a 2K finish or upscaling for a 4K finish.
Click to expand...
Huh. That's a bummer. I wonder if someone can post side by side video or stills of GH4 anamorphic footage recorded in-camera vs on a Shogun or Odyssey7Q+ to see the resolution hit.
 
Anybody ever try this?

http://www.vid-atlantic.com/products/flare-streak-filters

Looks like a solid solution for those who just want that "flare" look to anamorphic but don't want the hassle/softness/light loss of shooting true anamorphic. Can be used with just about any lens even wide angle fast glass. Shoot normal 4096x2160 on the GH4 with this filter and crop in post to the DCI standard of 4096x1716 and you have 4k DCI scope with anamorphic like flares. Not 100% perfect but would probably fool 99% of the people out there if you didn't tell them.

Company has another option as well that alters the bokeh of a lens for anamorphic like bokeh plus the flare.

http://www.vid-atlantic.com/products/cinemorph

Only downside like other anamorphic options it looses 1-2 stops of light and only really works on 50mm or tighter lenses. Not exactly practical for the GH4 since 50mm is pretty tight and it already isn't the best in low light. With great care and lots of light however 4096x1716 cropped from the GH4 could have bokeh and flares similar to shooting anamorphic all without the hassle of actually shooting anamorphic.
 
The streak filters work great and the booked-altering filter is also interesting, but I can tell you that there is a lot more to the anamorphic look than that. These ape the look, but they do not replicate it.
 
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