GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

filmguy123 said:
I suppose EF-RF glass would adapt more smoothly for quality AF?

With cinematch, maybe picking one up would be worth it as an AF shots only camera. Oh man, that sounds like a gateway drug. I'd much prefer Panasonic to just flip off the cartel and bring DPAF to S1H mk ii.
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Depends on the lens, but you don't want to do that.

filmguy...I have spent a small fortune on buying and selling equipment like a lunatic, so I hear you loud and clear.

But you really want the best modern RF glass if you're going to go in on a RF system for AF.

It's going to hurt...it's going to hurt a lot.

I'm about to buy a RF 15-35mm f/2.8 and I am in pain.
 
That makes sense, and yeah therein lies the friction. Well, I'm bouncing the idea in the back of my head. Maybe by the time it stops bouncing, Panasonic will have caught up in AF, or Canon/Sony won't be outclassed by Panasonic in so many metrics that matter to me.
 
Panasonic always made amazing cameras but not having that reliable AF is so big because of the production value videos have these days.

Like even 5 years ago, it wasn't as crazy as it is now. I mean, normal vlogs on YouTube look like short Hollywood, blockbuster films.

So adding any kind of camera movement into your work - no matter the camera - really helps to keep you in that dynamic, commercial-like world.

Now of course you can still move with and fly Panasonics, but it's harder because it's constantly a struggle with what's in focus unless you're at f/8+ outside.
 
I think you're spot on, and it is crazy how things have changed. Funny, just in another thread now Thomas commented how " did get a Canon R6. As impressive as it is however its also a very frustrating camera to use at times."

And that's the sort of thing that scares me away. I had that with the EVA1 and working with that camera still pisses me off to this day (sorry Mitch). My biggest take away from all my gear acquisition is that it's really important to me to have a workflow as seamless and enjoyable as possible. The Lumix cameras have just knocked that out of the park, and so when I read about all the caveats and frustrations with the other cameras it scares me away a bit. Maybe more than neccessary. The only bad thing to level at Panasonic is lack of AF, or just when you are waiting on their next cycle (i.e. the S1H ii feels outdated already, being 3 years old and only shooting 4k60p at 10-bit 420 with an APS-C crop).

It also feels funny to drop at least $7.5k on a Canon setup (2x $2000 lenses, $2500 R6 body, $1000 adapters/batteries/chargers) that doesn't fit into my existing workflow, and it creates some on set confusion for me. Do I just fully commit Canon to keep it simple? I don't think I'm ready for that. But then I try and picture jumping back and forth between my Panny gear and an R6 and it feels sloppy and messy in my head, footage spread out on various cameras and then having to match things and yada yada yada.
 
I think you will eventually figure it all out.

I have gone through a similar situation on pretty much every level.

My main camera right now is a RED Komodo. Before that I have used just about every camera on earth below $10K. So that would include a lot of Canons, mostly DSLRs and mirrorless' which I think are just about the most perfect cameras there are besides having some extremely annoying technical limitations. (I especially love the ergonomics.)

But I had the R5 in 2020 on its first day, and I realized almost immediately that working with the H.265 wouldn't be sustainable for me. (This was a few months before I had a M1.) There was just no way I could do anything with more than 10 minutes of this footage in any timely manner so I had to let it go (plus because of overheating and not having any work in 2020, lol).

But after Mac's M1, workflow isn't a consideration for me. As long as I can import it into FCP, I'm now good, and I think with a powerful PC on your end and being able to work with it in Resolve or Adobe you should be good too, right?

___

So what's next...commitment.

Around 2018, I realized (regardless of any cartel talk), that I was going to end up with Canon or Sony full-frame automatic lenses. I saw where the industry was heading and that was an easy choice, but picking a mount wasn't.

Eventually I settled on the RF mount because I simply enjoyed using Canon cameras more (has to be fun and not frustrating, like you say).

___

Not sure where I am going with this, lol, but basically I figured out through a lot of career time where I want to be, and that is with a mount that will have camera options with great AF.
 
The way I look at AF is its the one thing we can solve straight out of the box without any extra gear. I did it for a decade on ENG cameras and did it on DSLRs since the GH1. did it with the Canon XL1 for years and many video cameras after that. Myself and many others do it with cine lenses all the time. Its not rocket science to manual focus. Even for a one person crew. AF is 100% a nice to have. Its a feature of convenience and not a degradation of what the camera is capable of producing.

A lot of the other stuff cannot be solved that easily. Sony cameras previously were horrifically crippled with their 8bit 4:2:0 video. There was absolutely no way to fix that even with an external recorder. Just not possible. One couldn't take pixel binned Canon HD video and make it as clean and detailed as 4k video. That was a limitation that could not be solved. No IBIS or poor IBIS means the difference between adding a lot of stabilizing gear or having video that is impacted negatively.

What Panasonic gives us pretty much nails every single aspect of a camera minus the AF. A thing we 100% have the means of gettign around without spending a single extra penny. Panasonic nails IBIS, They nail 4k video, they nail slow motion, they now nail log and somehow even managed to nail DR, latitude and low light, they even managed to nail 25 MP photos or even 100 MP photos. It really is a virtually perfect camera minus the AF. Again something we can and should be learning how to do without.

I like AF as well which is why I bought a R6 but I still do not value it as a must. I bought the R6 because I really didn't want to buy a GH5 this late in the game and I was tired of waiting. I figured I might as well try the FF and DPAF thing. I did and its neat but thats it. Its neat. Its more of a nice to have than it is a must have.

I want a GH6 to have DPAF as well but its not there and likely never will be. With that said contrast detect is great for photos. Its great for push once AF. I see a lot of YouTube videos showing the pulsing in bokeh of a static shot and subject and thinking to myself why not use the tools correctly? Push once to focus on that focal plane and leave it. Problem solved. Now the tracking of a weirdo moving super fast to and from a camera I can't help but is that really a normal use case for AF? Seems like 80-90% of the time the GH6 actually does well for that kind of stuff anyway. Yeah its not perfect but then neither is the R6 overheating or Sony insisting for a decade that 10bit was pointless or that a $3,500 camera should be the only option for 10bit like its somehow only for special people.
 
When you talk like that, to me it's clear the R6 really isn't the camera for you...I think you'd be happier with the GH6, back where your heart is... :love4:
 
Well I have ordered a GH6 and it will do well for me. I too use push once for focus and then record. Check for focus and manually adjust if needed , almost never because of depth of field. I want deep depth of field not shallow. I shoot in theatre so autofocus is not viable in those lighting conditions anyway. So what appears to be the only downside mentioned in reviews is of no importance to me.
 
Peter C. said:
I don't understand why it would matter what camera is the best seller on B&H...
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Others brushed on the subject but I'll chime in.

First of all, B&H is considered a pro camera store. Not only does it move a lot of units, it moves a lot of units that don't get much attention at Best Buy or on Amazon. Yes, there's a Rebel here and an Instamatic there but, overall, B&H moves some serious gear.

Second, because it indeed moves a lot of pieces, its rankings have very little "unintended error". In other words, even if their rankings are not one hundred percent accurate at a given time, they're nonetheless a pretty good indicator of what sells and what doesn't. The "hot" models are seen and heard. If you're bidding on a project with an unpopular model, it's your prerogative but it's generally better to be in the flow of things. In other words, you may rant and rail pro or against 4K/8K/AF/CFExpress/CFast 2.0 or whatever but, at some point, the market speaks for itself and B&H is its bullhorn. For the rest, there's black&white film. With a 32-bit floating audio.

Third, it gives you a pretty decent overview of the entire industry as it pertains to the US. For example, R5 comes out, shoots straight for #1, stays there for a year. And that means that's where things are headed. Yes, some people will continue shooting HD, some in black&white film, but aside of the trend setters, the herd follows B&H. You can join or you can stay out of trends but, for most it's better be in the thick of things. Let Tarantino and Spielberg shoot on 70mm. They're great but most DVXUsers might as well go with whatever is in the B&H Top 5. Per category, if need be.

Fourth, NorBro figured out how to tank B&H rankings, so he can buy and resell anything he likes or dislikes at any moment he feels like. I'd like to help him. Wouldn't you?
 
I do think AF is more valuable than that, especially in a camera like a GH. The thought of just free moving a camera around with a shallower DOF, say pulling back on their hands as they play piano, pushing in on someone's face, doing a more complicated camera move without a team where you can't even really get a good grip on the focus pull. That really adds a certain dynamic je ne sais quoi and creative freedom, plus ease of use convenience, that I would be very excited about.

That said... I hear you Thomas, too. I do think it's silly when someone worries about AF pulsing for a talking head. Just set a shot like that with manual focus, how inept are you!? (lol sorry). I just mean, it's like, I don't care how good the AF is - if a shot is roughly static I will use the MF every time, because I trust me more than a computer. But I've been doing this a loonnggg time, so I can see why some would trust a computer more.

It also seems that the GHx does a pretty solid, though imperfect, job of tracking some more basic movements. I actually think I could get away now with a handheld camera push towards a persons face at shallow DOF and have it hold perfectly well, or throw it on a gimbal and have it hold focus on someone while following them. I wouldn't trust it for a critical one-take like a bride down the aisle, but something I can shoot, and then try again if needed? Sure. I do wish I could get fancier than that or riskier than that, as it would be really cool to open things up. But without jumping ship I can't, and is it just me or does every year keep going by faster and faster as we get older? I swear I just, I mean literally just, bought the S1H. But I guess that was 2.5 years ago, geesh.

Though if I find myself on a project or shoot where I really could use the AF I'll probably rent a canon to try it out. Maybe I'll add one as my AF camera after another revision, R5 mk ii sounds nice if they can turn up the heat (err down the heat?) on the next revision.
 
filmguy123 said:
That said... I hear you Thomas, too. I do think it's silly when someone worries about AF pulsing for a talking head. Just set a shot like that with manual focus, how inept are you!? (lol sorry). I just mean, it's like, I don't care how good the AF is - if a shot is roughly static I will use the MF every time, because I trust me more than a computer. But I've been doing this a loonnggg time, so I can see why some would trust a computer more..
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But I know you know better than that...

If you're shooting a FF interview on a 85mm or 135mm as a second angle at f/1.4, f/1.8, and you have a nervous speaker inching back and forth, are you telling me you're going to pull focus manually back and forth with him or her? (Yeah, you can stop down but if you don't want to?)

If you are pulling manually, you're doing it wirelessly without touching the rig, right?

Because if not...the computer will do it for you. Tracks the eye, the face. 99% perfectly for a sitting subject.

These are the kind of situations you enlighten yourself with, even the most simpler ones you think you've gotten figured out.

___

And of course the AF system is much more useful than how it's described above. It opens up a world of possibilities never dreamed of with full-frame sensors and fast lenses that are moving and following other objects, especially moving objects.
 
DLD said:
Fourth, NorBro figured out how to tank B&H rankings, so he can buy and resell anything he likes or dislikes at any moment he feels like. I'd like to help him. Wouldn't you?
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I'm done selling anything over $100, $200...it's impossible to sell anything how it used to be.

People are smarter now. lol
 
NorBro said:
If you're shooting a FF interview on a 85mm or 135mm as a second angle at f/1.4, f/1.8, and you have a nervous speaker inching back and forth, are you telling me you're going to pull focus manually back and forth with him or her? (Yeah, you can stop down but if you don't want to?)

If you are pulling manually, you're doing it wirelessly without touching the rig, right?
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Well, I usually shoot interviews on two cameras, one with 35mm or 50mm FF equivalent and b-camera at around 85mm. The 35/50 is more forgiving. And then I've always got b-roll going so if something like that happens, I just cut around it or use the wider angle, which is set forgiving enough to accommodate such even if I had to use the clip right then.

With that - it's still a good point and precisely what I mean about opening up creative freedom. I also shoot like that as a result of learning my tools, not because I was laying in bed one night as a kid and thought "someday, I want to shoot and cut interviews just like that". It's why I'm keen on AF, too - I think once I get a taste, it will be to me like IBIS was.
 
NorBro said:
I'm done selling anything over $100, $200...it's impossible to sell anything how it used to be.

People are smarter now, lol.
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Wait, tell me more. I've got a whole bunch of crap that's depreciated because I've been too lazy to sell it.

Anyone want an AF100, HVX200, GH4, GH5, GH5s.....
 
filmguy123 said:
It's why I'm keen on AF, too - I think once I get a taste, it will be to me like IBIS was.
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Yes, it will be. You will become better at what you do, ironically even with the assistance.

You will think more outside the box and do things you couldn't do before.

But again, I'm only saying that to you because it sounds like you could actually benefit from it instead of someone shooting macro jewelry.
 
filmguy123 said:
Wait, tell me more. I've got a whole bunch of crap that's depreciated because I've been too lazy to sell it.

Anyone want an AF100, HVX200, GH4, GH5, GH5s.....
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The last two should be sold for something decent, the first two you should keep as history pieces or on a coffee table.

The GH4 could be used as an emergency camera in your Pelican, or maybe as a webcam. The $200 or so you'd get from it is probably not worth it.
 
DLD said:
it's generally better to be in the flow of things... it gives you a pretty decent overview of the entire industry... You can join or you can stay out of trends but, for most it's better be in the thick of things.
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Yeah... that's generally played out in my experience. Usually the more popular things are popular for a reason, they hold resale better, and in the long run new accessories are made with them in mind so you hold compatibility better. I probably should have ditched my HVX200 stat for a Canon 7D back in the day, but instead I waited for the AF100, which transitioned me into GHx line, then the EVA line, now the S line.

I would have jumped ship a few years back, but felt inclined to stay Panasonic when they showed up with the l-mount and S series. Actually, I really really love those cameras and agree with Thomas, the GH6 is pretty perfect except AF (and some dream features like 32-bit float, internal NDs, etc.). The S1H ii will hopefully be on market within ~12 months and wreak some havoc.

But I do see the magnetic train of Canon & Sony and worry I'll be left on the sidelines. I guess we'll see how the GH6 plays out for me and how the S1H ii goes, and if the next revisions from Sony/Canon fix my gripes...
 
NorBro said:
The last two should be sold for something decent, the first two you should keep as history pieces or on a coffee table.

The GH4 could be used as an emergency camera in your Pelican, or maybe as a webcam. The $200 or so you'd get from it is probably not worth it.
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What did you mean by people getting smarter and not selling anything over $100/$200?
 
NorBro said:
Yes, it will be. You will become better at what you do, ironically even with the assistance.

You will think more outside the box and do things you couldn't do before.

But again, I'm only saying that to you because it sounds like you could actually benefit from it instead of someone shooting macro jewelry.
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I could, and this sounds about right... well, if this year trends comfortably enough in the black and I need some write-offs, perhaps I'll consider a used R6 and a few new RF lenses/adapters/batteries to get into the system, see what all the fuss is about, and then spring for a new R5 mk ii whenever it launches. Things really slowed down with COVID and I haven't been on a travel shoot since I evaced Indonesia on a shoot in March 2020 when they shut it all down.
 
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