GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

DLD said:
As to 2-piece, as Abe said, at some point it does begin to look like an actual camera. But these days, one can think of a small one-handed jib holding the interchangeable camera module with either a wired or wireless connection. The other potential is not just an interchangeable lens mount but an interchangeable sensor camera.
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I could see that. I'm already doing smartphone control for my camera mounted on a gimbal. (But I still use a wired monitor as well for reliability/resolution/latency/screen size/exposure and framing tools.)

but the point is that if you add tools and accessories, then you can no longer say that a consumer phone is all you need to shoot, everything in your pocket. Which is fine.
 
There are two major trends with regards to the smartphone vs. the standalone camera contest. One is that the smartphone quality is increasing at a faster rate vs. the cartel. Two is that both have already broken through the "more than good enough" barrier. In other words, a decade ago your average smartphone was - for the sake of an argument - at 30% of the stand-along camera quality; by mid-decade, it was at 50 and now it's approaching 80. It will probably get to about 90 and stop there due to the laws of physics. By then, however, each will be akin to a medium format professional camera from today and most people won't be able to tell the difference in the final print/file (if shot by a reasonable level photographer).

And, after that point, only the pros will want ILC's much like the pro cinematographers will still want the latest iteration of Alexa over the latest iteration of R5c, even though the visual difference in the delivered material will be microscopic.

PS. Painting/art shifted from realism into impressionism at just about the same time photography began to take root in the mid-19th century. Of course, nowadays there's a style called "hyper realism", which tried to emulate a super high resolution digital still at maximum depth of field. To me, those are better suited toward the complete fiction/fantasy - i.e., wizards and warriors - rather than trees and flowers, which have no problems posing.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Considering its the 16th today and a lot is closed for Holidays after next week I kind of figured that was a given. I haven't really expected the GH6 to come out this year now for a few months. The important take away from their announcement is that yes it is still coming. Eventually. In the future. Some day. Before I die. Before the world ends or the sun goes supernova.
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A 2022 release with 2019 specs. Back to the future.
 
Panasonic Japan issued the following statement:
Notice about LUMIX GH6
Thank you for your continued patronage of Panasonic products.
Regarding the mirrorless single-lens camera “LUMIX GH6” that was developed and announced on May 26, 2021 We were aiming for commercialization within 2021, but it is expected to be delayed. Currently, we are aiming for commercialization in early 2022. We apologize for any inconvenience caused to customers who are waiting for this product. Deeply apologize.December 16, 2021 Panasonic Corporation​

Wonder if it is the chip shortage, working out bugs, or improvements? Maybe they want to move more of the GH5II.
 
They already said what it will have (which would make that true, same specs as the 2019 S1H), but it's just that we're hoping for more.
 
I've been hoping for a nice Panasonic cinema camera with the works for less than $5K...I'm on year 9.

(They've made 3 in 15 years.)
 
DLD said:
And it's MFT, not FF.
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Not sure if that is said with disdain, but for me that's the whole point. FF performance in MFT. Obviously physics imposes it's own limitations, but get it very close, and then some..... (leaving out the aesthetics of DOF)

As Ahalpert says, hope....
 
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stoneinapond said:
Not sure if that is said with disdain, but for me that's the whole point. FF performance in MFT. Obviously physics imposes it's own limitations, but get it very close, and then some..... (leaving out the aesthetics of DOF) ..
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Not with disdain but with the general preference for larger sensors for most video work - aside of shooting the home plate from the bleachers with P1000 - while admiring the longer range of MFT for sports and action.

The problem for the MFT products is that they all share the same sensor and that necessitates compromises. OMD stills shooters want res far above 20 MPX, while the Panasonic videographers can be sated with 5.7K and a top notch codec. Theoretically, there should be different data collectors such as those being offered in full frame with the various 24, 33, 45/47, 50 and 61 MPX models. But, if Sony won't budge, the MFT consortium has its collective hands tied.

Meanwhile, each delays pits the already announced specs against the newer models from other manufacturers and, if one expects a 4-5 year cycle for a given model, then it has to project well forward. And the GH-6 specs already have it covering its own behind.
 
DLD said:
A 2022 release with 2019 specs. Back to the future.
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Not entirely sure it’s accurate to say it has 2019 specs. What does that even mean? Heck most other cameras are still struggling to handle internal 10bit video. You mean it shoots 4K or 6k video? How is that 2019 specs? Is 10bit 4:2:2 some kind of inferior 2019 spec? We don’t even know the MP count yet. In fact we don’t really know much other than it will be better than the GH5.

I’m not entirely sure what you mean by 2019 specs when we have only had 3 or 4 specs released to us so far.

yes it will be m43 but that’s not a 2-19 spec. M43 is still a very good sensor. 12 stops of DR? Heck the Canon R6 still hovers around that and that is considered a high end camera model.
 
FWIW Liam Hall wrote in the cine glass thread that he's considering adding a small sensor camera with an ENG lens to his doc kit. (I believe his A/B are C500mk2 and R5.) Of course, that could also mean smaller than M43 and could also mean a fixed-lens camera. But the point is that the small ENG lens remains a valuable option. And it needs a small sensor to capture it (or, perhaps, a high-resolution cropping of a larger sensor)
 
Thomas Smet said:
... Not entirely sure it’s accurate to say it has 2019 specs. What does that even mean?l.
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Well, BMD Pocket 6K came out in August, 2019, with both Raw and ProRes recordings. On top of that it's a APS-C sensor (and the EF-mount, which is a plus to some). The GH-6 codecs aren't even announced.

Meanwhile, an 8K APS-C model is expected from Fuji and likely a whole bunch of 8K full frame cams from Canon, Nikon and Sony.

How can Panasonic expect to sell GH-6 in 2022?
 
DLD said:
Well, BMD Pocket 6K came out in August, 2019, with both Raw and ProRes recordings. On top of that it's a APS-C sensor (and the EF-mount, which is a plus to some). The GH-6 codecs aren't even announced.

Meanwhile, an 8K APS-C model is expected from Fuji and likely a whole bunch of 8K full frame cams from Canon, Nikon and Sony.

How can Panasonic expect to sell GH-6 in 2022?
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Because 99.9% of the people on the planet don't care about 6k or 8k. Most practical users want a solid 4k camera over the ability to shoot 6k or 8k video. Besides we already know the GH6 will have 5.7k or pretty darn close to 6k. Beyond 4k the exact number of pixels means absolutely nothing. 5.5k, 5.7k, 6k to 6.2k does not matter at all. Its oversampled bayer video to deliver solid detailed 4k or a slightly larger 6kish video. The GH5 had a 5.1k mode before any of the other cameras and it really meant squat for most users. Very few ever really used it for much. Its a neat to have and nothing more really. Most cameras sold today are 4k or if they can do more most users are only using them for 4k. The P4k is still 4k and likely outsells most DSLRs. The Canon R6 is selling very well and it only shoots 4k video so I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make.

Most cameras only shoot 4k video. The Sony A7S is 4k only and sells very well. The P4j still sells very well. The Canon R6 and so forth. 6k and 8k are not very realistic or practical yet.

You are viewing this strictly from a resolution point of view which yes at one point Panasonic was the cutting edge. I don't think the mount and sensor size matter much either. The Panasonic L series has an amazing mount and sensor and yet the sales are pretty sad. There are a ton of m43 users out there that want an upgrade option for their existing lenses. Many have spent years investing in m43 glass or a Speedbooster and EF glass. We have been waiting very impatiently for a GH6 to upgrade to. APS-C means squat to them and if they do leave m43 it will be for FF and not APS-C.

I faced that exact situation and as cool as Fuji is it meant investing in all new glass and to be honest I'm not sure if Fuji has any more of a future than Panasonic does. At least Panasonic has other products to try too stay alive as a company. Plus in the broadcast space Sony and Panasonic have been the kings for as long as I can remember. Fuji has had some huge hits but they are still very much an underdog. I decided I was either going to invest in Canon or Sony who will likely be the last two standing. If Sony actually had 10bit as an option I would have considered it. Speaking of outdated specs. The fact that Sony only started to add 10bit in 2020 is pretty disgusting and yet people still buy those cameras.

In the end I went with the Canon R6 because it offered perfect support for EF lenses which I can use with m43 cameras like the P4k and my old GH4 which I just shipped off to sell finally. It was one of the few FF options that had full sensor 4k 60p, 10bit 4:2:2 internal, IBIS, DPAF and perfect lens support for EF lenses. I was super close to getting the Panasonic S5 but it didn't have DPAF, only had cropped 4k 60p and its EF lens support sucked. Sony only really had their newest A7S that had 10bit but it sucked for stills and it was very expensive. The R6 was already pushing it for me. If Sony had some more affordable decent options with 10bit at the time that may have moved me towards Sony who are now getting a ton of great new 3rd party lenses.

If the GH6 can offer good stills, great 4k 60p 10bit 4:2:2 video, no overheating, interesting 6k options, stellar IBIS which Panasonic is known for and at least halfway decent AF then it would have easily competed for me against the Canon R6. I love the DPAF and sensitivity of the R6 but the overheating royally sucks for long form productions. There are many video producers out there that need that kind of support and a GH6 makes 1000x more sense than a R6. Especially if those long form productions are lit well like stage productions. Those productions may not even need AF if users are already used to manual focus for that kind of work.

I may end up regretting getting the R6 if I ever have to do any of that kind of work again and wish I just waited for the GH6. I'm selling all my other cameras except for the P4k. Keeping that beast around for VFX side projects and to have a camera that does not overheat.

Cameras are not always just about specs. If that were the case then Panasonic would have crushed Canon a long time ago. The competition is finally getting acceptable 4k video and while pushing that to 6k and 8k limits many still trust the robustness and stability of Panasonic cameras. You grab a Panasonic camera you know it will do just about anything you ask of it for video and never let you down. Minus low light of course but thats not a secret. I'm talking failure rate. Panasonic has some of the most flawless and failure resistant DSLR video on the market. That matters a lot to those shooting live video. Cinema is a totally different situation of course but to be fair I think that boat sailed once the P4k came out. If one wants to do cinematic productions the Pocket cameras are a 1000x better choice.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Because 99.9% of the people on the planet don't care about 6k or 8k. Most practical users want a solid 4k camera over the ability to shoot 6k or 8k video.

All I want is 4K and I want something under $2,000. I don't want massive files to deal with in post. Panasonic doesn't need to reinvent the camera here. The Gh5II was a move in the right direction. Just fine tune the Gh5/II, and offer it at a good price.
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Purchasing a MFT camera for over $2K would be like buying a high-definition TV over $2K, so your wish will surely be granted.

___

But they actually do need to reinvent the camera here because the GH6 might be the last Panasonic camera you see if they don't.

Meaning they could decide to exit the camera business because there's honestly a very small chance of recovering from the Canon and Sony universe.

Everything DLD is saying is right and a few forum nerds like us can't save Panasonic by supporting MFT.
 
I am not in the "only res" camp ... because, once a plateau is hit, then other features - codec, media, IBIS, AF, etc. - gain in pertinence. But when a particular feature is advancing - can be resolution, AF, codecs, media, etc. - the race is to include it on an ever affordable price levels is on. So, when Canon came out with an 8K R5 for under $4,000 and it became a #1 bestseller on B&H, it behooved other cartel members to jostle for the same feature. And so Sony (A1) and Nikon (Z9) did just that. And, if Panasonic gets in the same game, it will do so as well. But with S1R II. And, if Panasonic doesn't, then Canon, Sony and Nikon would be more than happy to keep the market to themselves. Because that's where all the action is at the moment.

And the 4K field has been far too crowded for far too long for anyone to make a big splash these days, let alone an MFT model. A 4K MFT can obviously generate some sales but only at the lower half (sub-$1,500) of the market. Or it'll have the stench of failure around it a la GH-5II.
 
DLD said:
I am not in the "only res" camp ... because, once a plateau is hit, then other features - codec, media, IBIS, AF, etc. - gain in pertinence. But when a particular feature is advancing - can be resolution, AF, codecs, media, etc. - the race is to include it on an ever affordable price levels is on. So, when Canon came out with an 8K R5 for under $4,000 and it became a #1 bestseller on B&H, it behooved other cartel members to jostle for the same feature. And so Sony (A1) and Nikon (Z9) did just that. And, if Panasonic gets in the same game, it will do so as well. But with S1R II. And, if Panasonic doesn't, then Canon, Sony and Nikon would be more than happy to keep the market to themselves. Because that's where all the action is at the moment.

And the 4K field has been far too crowded for far too long for anyone to make a big splash these days, let alone an MFT model. A 4K MFT can obviously generate some sales but only at the lower half (sub-$1,500) of the market. Or it'll have the stench of failure around it a la GH-5II.
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I've seen good reviews on the Gh5II. To call a camera that improved on the GH5, which for years was a favorite, a failure is not accurate. Not everyone wants or can afford to spend $2.000, $3000 or more buying cameras and lenses. There is a lower end market. The problem for Panasonic and others is the iPhone.
 
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