Panasonic unveiled G1-HD...

Status
Not open for further replies.
capice said:
In psychology this is called "projection". You seem to be a kinda difficult person. But in every forum one can find somebody like you... ;-).
BTW: When actually you´re sleeping - you are sitting from morning to evening (european time) in front of your Monitor. Then it is night in Australia - or where is "your Sydney"? :-)

Ok - back to topic. Obyiously the GH1 will have a lot of friends. And not only in the amateur-market. But as I said before, I´m pretty sure that the purchase intentions will change quite extremely when the new Nikons gonna be announced...
Click to expand...

No need bitting his bait, Capice. There's always someone with a big Ego deficit around the corner. The best thing to do is to ignore...


Back to topic- Exactly. I'm almost sure in the next couple of months either Nikon or even Canon are going to come with a camera that's going to deliver where Panasonic purposedly didn't. And that's on the compression. The 5D MarkII was a big surprise in that it really did a great job in this department, failing only by deliberately not allowing 25/24p . I really cannot believe why Panasonic didn't went with AVCHD with 25Mb/s encoding similar to the HMC150.

I'm seriously considering a DSLR to complement my hvx+ 35mm adapter- which looks absolutelly stunning, by the way- and its doing "pro work".
 
There was no bait. I was just making a point that goes back to a comment from Zak about shooting a film on a fisher price if the concept is good enough. My comments weren't meant to offend anyone and were made in response to what you said "I can't see Panasonic pulling out a 1500 Dollar camera that would obliterate its consumer and professional video division cameras." My point being they don't have to worry their "pro" customers wouldn't be seen with such a "toy".

I take no offence at your ego deficit comment as I figure you just misunderstood what I was trying to say. Sorry if Australian humor doesn't translate.
 
Relax, let's keep this from getting personal, this is after all the internet. :)

I hope this camera delivers and delivers good. I'm not sure why they don't just release those marketing clips at full quality for people to look at. I think it hurts them more to just let showroom prototype footage be the first impression people get from this camera. It's obviously capable of a lot more than we're seeing.
 
sok mate I have a pretty thick skin, goes with my head.

My guess is due to the economic conditions they are all running around like a chook with it's head cut off desperately trying to get something to market (while there still is one) that may or may not be ready, hence the banding in the demo footage. Marketing departments tend to make engineering decisions which also doesn't help. I expect they will get it right for NAB. I don't see Nikon on the list of exhibitors unfortunately.
 
SPZ said:
I hate to be pessimistic, but I can't see Panasonic pulling out a 1500 Dollar camera that would obliterate its consumer and professional video division cameras.

I hope I'm wrong, but here's what I think will happen with this camera:

1- Skew, rolling shutter issues
2- Sub par AVCHD encoding- the picture quality will look worse than the HMC150. or HPX170 and, obviously, HPX300.
3- Worse color rendition, Dinamic Range should be bellow HPX300.

What it WILL have:

1- DOF control (interchangeable lenses on a big sensor)
2- Better low light performance than the video cams.

These are my expectations, at least.
Click to expand...

I'm expecting a quality level pretty similar to the AVCHD camcorders the SD100 and the new TM300... at a similar price point and aimed at the same sort of "almost-prosumer level" ... the difference being the form factor and the changeable lens / larger sensor. It's unlikely to be the WOW!-camera that we can buy excitedly and never need to upgrade.

Just... average... standard camcorder quality but with the bokeh for a slightly difference consumer requirement, the would-be cinematographer who wants to play with that small DoF stuff and have all they need in one camera. And that's no bad thing...... I've love to be proved wrong but I can't see it producing ultra-detailed footage that TV stations would find acceptable. It's going to be about 2/3 as sharp as it could be, just like every other crippled consumer cam.
:)
 
MJ Peg said:
that TV stations would find acceptable
Click to expand...
i hear that all the time but i think it's nonsense. i've sold super 8 and dv movies to tv around the world, as well as some hdv stuff, and they've always been concerned with content first. many award winning features have been shot on prosumer hdv and they would be stupid not to show them, and so on. sure, some channels like maybe discovery hd may have their own rules for various reasons, but in general there's no "crispness requirement" in most tv contracts. also, with the right lighting and the right cameraman consumer video can look just as crisp as badly lit hdcam sr.

/matt
 
squig said:
There will always be wankers who will piss away good money on high end toys just so they can say "i'm a pro". While the rest of us creative types will get good work done with something held together with a bit of gaff.
Click to expand...

You try showing up on a paid job with what looks to the (uneducated) client like a toy camera. Creatively leveraging technology is a wonderful thing, but if you are being paid by the hour or the day - which is the definition of a pro - then part of what you get paid for includes making the client feel good and giving them what they expect.

Owning a $5000+ camera isn't necessarily wank if you make your living in the commercial sector. Most clients don't want to be on the bleeding edge of new technology, but rather a predictable end result.
 
it depends. i have a reputation of creating cool stuff with an edge using cheap equipment like super 8 and papier mache, so this is what the client often expects. sometimes when i've done things on 35mm they've been like "oh, i thought you were gonna show up with a vhs tube camera and a diy 35mm adapter when you said 35". :-) there's also a big difference between commercials, documentaries and narratives, only the first category generally requires putting on a show.

/matt
 
the toy camera's don't look very toy like with rods, follow focus, matte box, big lens, stabilizer, etc. And they actually end up costing $5000.

Agreed, clients are the wankers.

Technology makes the job easier. creativity makes it look good.
 
squig said:
There was no bait. I was just making a point that goes back to a comment from Zak about shooting a film on a fisher price if the concept is good enough. My comments weren't meant to offend anyone and were made in response to what you said "I can't see Panasonic pulling out a 1500 Dollar camera that would obliterate its consumer and professional video division cameras." My point being they don't have to worry their "pro" customers wouldn't be seen with such a "toy".

I take no offence at your ego deficit comment as I figure you just misunderstood what I was trying to say. Sorry if Australian humor doesn't translate.
Click to expand...

Got your point, no harm done. I'm also a guy with a small fuse and a "unique" sense of humour, so I can understand where you come from :)

Back on topic, I think that while this Gh1 DSLR, if implemmented the 25 Mbps, wouldn't obliterate the whole of Panasonic's prosumer Market, it would certainly hurt their sales- specially for the "Creative" part of the industry- I'm talking about TV Commercials, MTV's, Independent Films, short documentaries, Videoart... Its certainly not the camera for event coverage, Sports, Broadcast TV or Corporate/Weddings (then again, it could work in certain situations for this), but it could hurt on all those others said. In this forum, there's at least one user that was happy to sell his HVX200 for the Canon 5D Mark II. I wouldn't go as far, since I do Corporate and Sports, but if I was merely doing short films, MTV's and TV Commercials, I would probably do the same. This is how things are going. No turning back.

As much as I like Panasonic gear, I feel like now is the time for a major Manufacturer to take "that" bold step forward. Canon opened the "Pandora's Box". Panasonic can either take advantage of this and be leader of a completely new market that's the result of the merge of still and video aquisition, or be merely a follower. Like I said, Nikon, with the immense D90 sales, will not neglect the success of Video on a Still camera, and they do not have a market to protect. Canon surprisingly does, but, then again, they can "upgrade" their prosumer line to benefit with their DSLR technology. Will this hurt their 2/3 Lens business? I don't think so.
 
We need a forum...BARRY!!!

Canon does 2:2 pulldown. 3:2 pulldown with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling on AVCHD creates saw tooth chroma artifacts every 4th frame. Canon knew about it and avoided it.

Steve Mullen reports the GH1 does native 24p and the specs are wrong. If so, the speed is probably also in question. Otherwise maybe it was an internal marketing decision.

The big advantage isn't just bokeh. It is high contrast at higher spatial frequencies because of over sampling. Why the 5DM2 pops when an EX1/3 looks flat.

A 2/3rd photo site is about 5.9µm. The 5DM2 is about 6.4µm. The GH-1 should be around 4.4µm. However, the Canon uses 3 photo sites per pixel, the GH-1 4, and the HD camcorder 1. Net, the 5DM2 has about 90µm², the GH-1 about 60µm², and the HD 2/3rd about 30µm². Net, the Canon will have less noise.

The Canon did get the recording on camera right, if limited. However they dropped the ball on off camera recording. The GH-1 is rumored to have live HDMI. If so, it will be possible to record the GH-1 at much lower compression. That comes at a significant cost in equipment, inconvienence, or both.
 
David, its wait and see at this point. Will the G1HD have 1080p 25p/24p Live HDMI output? Has that been confirmed? I don't recall seeing this anywere...

For me, it would be great if the G1HD really was that good. I'm actually very close to purchase it, since I own 2 of the small number of 4/3 lenses use attributes, like A/F, would work with it. But, like someone here said, I "prepare for the worse, hope for the best!"
 
I'd forget about the 4/3 zoom's they are so slow that it kind of defeats the purpose of getting a GH1 for shallow depth of field and low light ability. I'm getting an adapter and mounting my Nikon primes.

Live HDMI out is like the holy grail and well worth the extra expense for those of us shooting features at least until a HDSLR comes out with minimal compression.
 
squig said:
I'd forget about the 4/3 zoom's they are so slow that it kind of defeats the purpose of getting a GH1 for shallow depth of field and low light ability. I'm getting an adapter and mounting my Nikon primes.

Live HDMI out is like the holy grail and well worth the extra expense for those of us shooting features at least until a HDSLR comes out with minimal compression.
Click to expand...

Actually, I have a very good zoom- the original Panasonic Leica 25-70 2.8 that came with the L-1. Also, I have the also Panasonic Leica Summilux 25 1.4. Both of them are excelent lenses.
 
squig said:
...
The great thing about the GH1 is that nikon primes will fit with an adapter. So we can throw away our D90's and get a GH1, toss the GH1 and get the D800 if it's worth it. I'd really like a full frame HDSLR for around $3000 US.
Click to expand...

Me too. This plan could be a good opportunity, if the nikon-glasses will fit very well on a GH1, image quality is really good.....etc. and if it´s foreseeable, that no D800 will unveiled in this year. For 3 Month or so I wouldn´t order a GH1...
 
I thought about it some more, and the GH1 really does have a lot of potential.

It's sensor, although smaller than APS-C, is still much bigger than 2/3'', and thus would still have pretty good low light capabilities.

This year will be very interesting.

Main competition I see: Nikon, Canon, RED, and now Panasonic

Although, I'm curious to see if Olympus will offer a 4/3 HDSLR...

But Kudos to Panasonic for putting out a cool camera. :thumbup:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top