Panasonic Removable Lens Four Thirds HD AVCHD Camera
- Thread starter DavidNJ
- Start date
Jason Ramsey
Admin
Don't you mean a "peach" camera 
Barry_Green
Moderator
PMA is five days away. March 3rd.
Nektonic
Veteran
So if the sensor is smaller, how much of the low light shooting ability and DOF control are we loosing? How close are these sensors to an APS-C sized sensor?
Maybe these will get Canon motivated to add un-hampered and quality video options to the next round of their cams, which would be the Digital Rebel and later the inevitable 60D. I'm assuming these are going to compete in a similar price range, or are these going to be more pro-targeted cameras like the 5D mk2?
joe 1008
Veteran
The G1 stills are clean up to 800 asa, with the reduced resolution in video even 1600 asa might work - compared to the 5D you would loose about 2 stops. But that's just guesswork. Also the lenses that exist and are announced don't open more than f 3,5 or f 4,0 with the exception of a single prime lens, with an aperture of f 1,7 and a focal legth of 20mm (equivalent to a 40mm lens on a 35 camera - so the the crop factor is 2 compared to the one of an APS sensor which is 1,5 or 1,6) With the latter lens you might be fine in the dark.
Pure speculation. I personally still hope for a 5D firmware upgrade. But if an other camera shows up in time with better features I would be willing to buy that one. The G1 HD is said to ship between 1.500 and 1.800 USD. That's at least what the rumours say.
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Nektonic
Veteran
Yep, I'm just guessing about what else Canon might release.
Ehh, with the limitations compared to a full frame or APS-C sensor camera, I'm not too interested at that price. Hopefully the rumored Nikon D400 with HD video will be announced at PMA.
DavidNJ
Carbonite Member
http://www.four-thirds.org/en/microft/mft_product.html#14-45f35-56
It is micro four thirds...same 18 x 13.5 mm lens but no mirror allowing a thinner camera but no optical viewfinder. The lens is smaller diameter but with more electrical contacts.
For comparison:
1/3 is 4.8 x 3.6mm
1/2 is 6.4 x 4.8mm
2/3 is 11 x 8.8 mm
APS-C is 25.1 x 16.7mm
35mm is 36 x 24mm
Note, the APS-C is larger than four thirds.
HD is 32:18, 35mm and APS-C are 27:18, four thirds, 2/3, 1/2, and 1/3 are 24:18. So, the 35mm and ASP-C lose fewer photo sites shooting HD.
It is micro four thirds...same 18 x 13.5 mm lens but no mirror allowing a thinner camera but no optical viewfinder. The lens is smaller diameter but with more electrical contacts.
For comparison:
1/3 is 4.8 x 3.6mm
1/2 is 6.4 x 4.8mm
2/3 is 11 x 8.8 mm
APS-C is 25.1 x 16.7mm
35mm is 36 x 24mm
Note, the APS-C is larger than four thirds.
HD is 32:18, 35mm and APS-C are 27:18, four thirds, 2/3, 1/2, and 1/3 are 24:18. So, the 35mm and ASP-C lose fewer photo sites shooting HD.
Nektonic
Veteran
The lens issue is the main thing I'm thinking about.
Of course, the main issue is whether it will have full manual control and 24p. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
DavidNJ
Carbonite Member
One other note...the Panasonic 4/3rds lens are so-so, but Olympus and Sigma have some better glass. (see reviews on SLRgear.
Note that one of the lenses is 25mm thin lens, that is less than 1" thick. Even with an adapter, it is a thin camera.
Another is a 7-14mm (14-28mm 35mm equiv) zoom. There are also 9-18 and 10-20 zoom..and a wide variety of telephotos.
In the end, the lens has to have twice the resolution to create an equivalent image to a 35mm lens. However, if it works for 12Mp still, it should be ok for a 2k HD image, even if it is over 9Mp instead of 12.
Glass prices can be as high as Canon L glass...and the reviews are good.
Note that one of the lenses is 25mm thin lens, that is less than 1" thick. Even with an adapter, it is a thin camera.
Another is a 7-14mm (14-28mm 35mm equiv) zoom. There are also 9-18 and 10-20 zoom..and a wide variety of telephotos.
In the end, the lens has to have twice the resolution to create an equivalent image to a 35mm lens. However, if it works for 12Mp still, it should be ok for a 2k HD image, even if it is over 9Mp instead of 12.
Glass prices can be as high as Canon L glass...and the reviews are good.
DavidNJ
Carbonite Member
I am really beginning to think the important things are glass, recording algorithm/bandwidth (if you can't save it what does capturing it matter?), and a distant third sensor and electronics.
The larger sensor (opposed to different technology) seems to lead to 1) a few f/stops more light, increased DOF control, and probably most importantly, 'better' glass with a lower glass resolution. On a 35mm sensor, the lens needs half the lines/mm for the same resolution.
This is a four thirds lens comparison on CameraLabs:
update: Olympus has sensor-based IS, Panasonic has optical. As a result, the Olympus lenses don't have image stablization. Also, according to Panasonic, only lenses with contrast AF will autofocus. According to DPreview that is limted to:
The larger sensor (opposed to different technology) seems to lead to 1) a few f/stops more light, increased DOF control, and probably most importantly, 'better' glass with a lower glass resolution. On a 35mm sensor, the lens needs half the lines/mm for the same resolution.
This is a four thirds lens comparison on CameraLabs:
update: Olympus has sensor-based IS, Panasonic has optical. As a result, the Olympus lenses don't have image stablization. Also, according to Panasonic, only lenses with contrast AF will autofocus. According to DPreview that is limted to:
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heres hopeful thinking
panny has always provided manual controls and 24p on most of their consumer cams.
4/3 may not be as big as apsc or dx but its still a step up to consumer cams and smaller sensors.
obviously it cant beat a 5d mkII in sensor. but it does offer versatility and small size for a dslr.
arent panny lenses made by leica? and leica is pretty reputable.
im just being optimistic
panny has always provided manual controls and 24p on most of their consumer cams.
4/3 may not be as big as apsc or dx but its still a step up to consumer cams and smaller sensors.
obviously it cant beat a 5d mkII in sensor. but it does offer versatility and small size for a dslr.
arent panny lenses made by leica? and leica is pretty reputable.
im just being optimistic
Things to consider:
5d Mark 2 H264 is 30Mbs, what is the G1hd avchd bit rate?
As for the DOF, no worries. I own a panasonic L1 with the bundled leica 2.8, and DOF wise its very close to bigger sensor cameras. I also bought the 1.4 summilux 25mm and DOF is equivalent to a 50 1.4 Nikkor. Also, these 2 lens are excelent lens- up to Leica standard. Anyone interested I can post a couple of stills with these two lenses...
5d Mark 2 H264 is 30Mbs, what is the G1hd avchd bit rate?
As for the DOF, no worries. I own a panasonic L1 with the bundled leica 2.8, and DOF wise its very close to bigger sensor cameras. I also bought the 1.4 summilux 25mm and DOF is equivalent to a 50 1.4 Nikkor. Also, these 2 lens are excelent lens- up to Leica standard. Anyone interested I can post a couple of stills with these two lenses...
DavidNJ
Carbonite Member
The micro 4/3rds lens are not branded 'Leica', just Lumix. DPReview, which raved about the G1 sensor and electronics, used an Olympus 50mm lens. Virtually all of the Olympus lenses lose auto focus and all have no image stabilzation, reducing their effectiveness in telephone or high vibration environments.
The 5DM2 is around 40Mb/sec...btw.
Point and shoot Panasonic AVCHD cameras cap at 17Mb/s, and the consumer camcorders at 17 or 21 Mb/s.
Class 6 SDHC should handle 40-45Mb/sec, which probably exceeds 100Mb/s DVCProHD in most cases.
Nearly all the (all?) the digital cameras have no manual adjustments in video mode, and many don't allow zoom or focus adjustments.
Maybe we are now just waiting for a 4/3rds, APS-C, or 35mm sensor in a camcorder with digital camera or a version of digital camera lenses. The XH-1 Canon's do have an EOS lens adapter, however, the small sensor makes that feature somewhat limited. With a 35mm sensor it would be great.
The 5DM2 is around 40Mb/sec...btw.
Point and shoot Panasonic AVCHD cameras cap at 17Mb/s, and the consumer camcorders at 17 or 21 Mb/s.
Class 6 SDHC should handle 40-45Mb/sec, which probably exceeds 100Mb/s DVCProHD in most cases.
Nearly all the (all?) the digital cameras have no manual adjustments in video mode, and many don't allow zoom or focus adjustments.
Maybe we are now just waiting for a 4/3rds, APS-C, or 35mm sensor in a camcorder with digital camera or a version of digital camera lenses. The XH-1 Canon's do have an EOS lens adapter, however, the small sensor makes that feature somewhat limited. With a 35mm sensor it would be great.
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regarding the m4/3 lens. im not sure but i know its leica. ive read that somewhere.
i honestly dont care who gets there first on the perfect dslr video bandwagon. my money is on the lumix g hd. i just hope its low light is atleast as good as a dvx100b and less noise. few days till PMA!
i honestly dont care who gets there first on the perfect dslr video bandwagon. my money is on the lumix g hd. i just hope its low light is atleast as good as a dvx100b and less noise. few days till PMA!