FEATURE: DEUCE OF SPADES - How I made a period full feature film all by myself on ZERO budget

vic777 said:
Some say, "Less is more". I would humbly suggest 90 minutes max. As long as it qualifies as a "feature", your original goal will have been realized.
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90 minutes? haha! Ain't gonna happen. Not with a period film covering a span of 50 years...

Nops, it's going be long and I'll take my chances :).

"Fried Green Tomatoes" was 2 hours ten minutes, so were many of the other period films I researched. It seems 2:10 is the sweet spot for drama / period with flashbacks, cause you are essentially telling TWO stories in one film.

The thing is the story does not get boring at all. That's the key. Visugeek yesterday seemed to think that even at 2:20 I would be OK. Not sure, but I will investigate to make sure I know what the consequences of chosing a longer film will have. And if I can live with them then be it.

Since I don't think that a theatrical release woud be realistic, and I am primarily targetting DVD sales, it probably doesn't matter. I can always cut a short version if there is a genuine interest in putting the film on the big screen or TV or any other venue that requires a "limit" on film length in order to consider it.

the hotrodders would love a TEN HOUR long hotrod movie, so to them, the longer, the more flashbacks and hotrods, the merrier :thumbup:. I think I can keep it under 2:30, I hope. I am going to try my best.
 
It all depends on what the story needs, if it's important to the story, then it needs to be in there. Chopping a story to 90 minutes just to have it 90 minutes is not a good idea. Keeping it as short as you can without taking away from the story or the style of story telling is important.
In this case, if you are able to keep it to between 120 and 150 minutes and it feels like 90 minutes, then you've done a good job. If it feels like 200 minutes though, then you haven't and will need to adjust it.
If you are lucky enough to get a theatrical release, the theater owners always want shorter films so that they can have more showings, but they don't reject films that are 2+ hours simply because of how long they are.

It was a pleasure to meet you yesterday, and I look forward to helping with some of your VFX needs and possibly some of the shoots down the road, you are a beautiful, talented and very driven person, and I can't wait to see this project once it's all finished!

Cheers!

Chris
 
Good grief. How did I ever, ever, ever miss this thread.

I haven't had time to dig through it all, but I just can't believe what my eyes see.

All I've been doing since my last feature is making excuses and here's Faith kicking some serious ass and taking names.

What I've seen in amazing looking. Great camera movement, lighting, etc.

I hope all of you're dreams come true with this. You deserve it.

J.
 
visugeek said:
if you are able to keep it to between 120 and 150 minutes and it feels like 90 minutes, then you've done a good job. If it feels like 200 minutes though, then you haven't and will need to adjust it.
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Bingo.

Say what you will about "Titanic" (and its box office numbers will happily answer to that), but when I saw it I wasn't bored for one single moment of its 3 hours. Not one moment... Conversely, I've seen 5 minute short films too boring to sit through, and countless features that can't hold my attention for more than 10 minutes. Those ones get the fast lane back to Netflix.

I think crisp pacing in the edit is absolutely crucial, and again, have seen way too many movies where it seems the filmmakers are so in love with their self-indulgent scenes/style that it rises (or rather sinks) to the level of cinematic navel-contemplation. Getting this particular thing right is undoubtedly very hard for many, if not most filmmakers. Some call it "killing your babies" - being willing to cut down or even lose a scene altogether that you love because it isn't serving the film - but it often must be done.

Movies need to *move along*. It's what holds the viewer's interest (next to a good story and acting). Too often they don't. As Visugeek says, if it feels shorter than it is (Titanic), then you're on the money. If it feels longer (like a 2 hour movie I saw in a theater recently that felt like 3) it's death...

My $.02
 
Ted Spencer said:
Bingo.

Say what you will about "Titanic" (and its box office numbers will happily answer to that), but when I saw it I wasn't bored for one single moment of its 3 hours. Not one moment... Conversely, I've seen 5 minute short films too boring to sit through, and countless features that can't hold my attention for more than 10 minutes. Those ones get the fast lane back to Netflix.

I think crisp pacing in the edit is absolutely crucial, and again, have seen way too many movies where it seems the filmmakers are so in love with their self-indulgent scenes/style that it rises (or rather sinks) to the level of cinematic navel-contemplation. Getting this particular thing right is undoubtedly very hard for many, if not most filmmakers. Some call it "killing your babies" - being willing to cut down or even lose a scene altogether that you love because it isn't serving the film - but it often must be done.

Movies need to *move along*. It's what holds the viewer's interest (next to a good story and acting). Too often they don't. As Visugeek says, if it feels shorter than it is (Titanic), then you're on the money. If it feels longer (like a 2 hour movie I saw in a theater recently that felt like 3) it's death...

My $.02
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Well said, I agree :thumbup:

I have been able to cut scenes down from 4 minutes to 3 minutes by just trimming each shot a little shorter. 3 minutes scenes became 2.20 minute scenes etc etc...

i think I acn bring the flashbacks down quite a bit more without (yet) having to delete scenes... The good news is all the scenes feel better now that I trimmed the fat. the oace feels right. I think I am on the right track. I'm glad I stopped production to regroup, I'm learning a lot right now.
 
visugeek said:
It all depends on what the story needs, if it's important to the story, then it needs to be in there. Chopping a story to 90 minutes just to have it 90 minutes is not a good idea. Keeping it as short as you can without taking away from the story or the style of story telling is important.
In this case, if you are able to keep it to between 120 and 150 minutes and it feels like 90 minutes, then you've done a good job. If it feels like 200 minutes though, then you haven't and will need to adjust it.
If you are lucky enough to get a theatrical release, the theater owners always want shorter films so that they can have more showings, but they don't reject films that are 2+ hours simply because of how long they are.

It was a pleasure to meet you yesterday, and I look forward to helping with some of your VFX needs and possibly some of the shoots down the road, you are a beautiful, talented and very driven person, and I can't wait to see this project once it's all finished!

Cheers!

Chris
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**blush**

Are we talking about ME here?

PS: Where do I send the check LOL?

Chris, bot jerry and I thought you were super cool. I am excited to collaborate with you on those shots. cant' wait to see the bloody hood :). I edited an entire scene tonight and now I am too pooped to consider going anywhere. I'll dorp te files tomorrow nith I hope. I'll text you in a sec.
 
insanityfw said:
Good grief. How did I ever, ever, ever miss this thread.

I haven't had time to dig through it all, but I just can't believe what my eyes see.

All I've been doing since my last feature is making excuses and here's Faith kicking some serious ass and taking names.

What I've seen in amazing looking. Great camera movement, lighting, etc.

I hope all of you're dreams come true with this. You deserve it.

J.
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(taking a bow) Thank you, thank you.... I think it's awesome all the people who are finding this thread. Thank you for posting everybody. I is helping me stay motivated and focussed.

Only 4 scenes left to edit from scratch. And a few more left to "trim"... It's getting there, it's getting there . :beer:


Tonight I edited the last shot of Johnny Callaway, walking away. It posed some challenges but I figured a way around them and made something pretty cool and artistic for this closing shot.

Here's a screengrab from the raw footage:

Johnny%20leaves%201.jpg
 
ChrisHurn said:
Oh Wow, that looks like a fantastic shot! Keep going! All the grabs you have posted look super good.
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Thank you :thumbup:...

Well, it's official, I have been invaded by Finland. (yes, usually People invade COUNTRIES but in this case, the country has invaded ME).

Woke up this morning to find a bunch of emails from Finland related to the WHEELS cover, from Finland bands. They are wanting to donate music. Some of the stuff is really good. that is so cool... So many countries now involved in the film. I have one song from a French artist, got some stuff from Spain, now Finland... Plus the tons of material from US of course...

This film soundtrack is going to ROCK hard.

What's next?

Any aliens out in far away galaxies recording 50's rockbilly stuff? Send your stuff in! :thumbup:

(But please, please no 'you-know-what' probing LOL)
 
Deuceofspades said:
Woke up this morning to find a bunch of emails from Finland related to the WHEELS cover, from Finland bands. They are wanting to donate music. Some of the stuff is really good. that is so cool...
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No wonder :) they love rock music over here :)
Who are those bands ?

CIAO
CIPO
 
Hey Fatih,

Funny thing about the running times for features. You're lucky in the sense that your film is period and may get seriously viewed (I'm speaking mainly about festivals). Most festivals won't take a chance on a long film (2 hrs plus) with no name stars attached. The 'real estate' for festivals is too valuable (ever wonder why they want the running time on the dvd directly?). Also, most unknown films won't even get properly screened for festival consideration (don't believe the 'we watch every film in it's entirety' bs). I've recently trimmed my 2 hour 2 min. film down to 1 hour 42 min. and I don't think I can trim any more. Shame just to get someone to seriously screen the film. Someone I know broke down the REAL screening procedures for features and what he said was disheartening. I even had a distributor say I had to get the film down to 1 hour 38 min. before he would even look at it. He said If I had a star attached it wouldn't matter even if the film stunk.

Again, your film is different that it is period and may let someone watch more than the first 10 min. before throwing it into the 'Thanks but no thanks' pile.

Stick to your guns! You've done great so far and you've already received some attention so there is still hope for a long unknown indie-feature yet!

Todd
 
DCP said:
Hey Fatih,

Funny thing about the running times for features. You're lucky in the sense that your film is period and may get seriously viewed (I'm speaking mainly about festivals). Most festivals won't take a chance on a long film (2 hrs plus) with no name stars attached. The 'real estate' for festivals is too valuable (ever wonder why they want the running time on the dvd directly?). Also, most unknown films won't even get properly screened for festival consideration (don't believe the 'we watch every film in it's entirety' bs). I've recently trimmed my 2 hour 2 min. film down to 1 hour 42 min. and I don't think I can trim any more. Shame just to get someone to seriously screen the film. Someone I know broke down the REAL screening procedures for features and what he said was disheartening. I even had a distributor say I had to get the film down to 1 hour 38 min. before he would even look at it. He said If I had a star attached it wouldn't matter even if the film stunk.

Again, your film is different that it is period and may let someone watch more than the first 10 min. before throwing it into the 'Thanks but no thanks' pile.

Stick to your guns! You've done great so far and you've already received some attention so there is still hope for a long unknown indie-feature yet!

Todd
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Ok so this is the part where many of you are going to go: SHE IS INSANE (and yes, I am by the way)...

I am breaking all the rules with this film. Why? Cause I don't care. I'm doing this for the LOVe not for the money and I know the film is going to get out there, with or without festivals, with or without a distributor. I'm going to do it my way and if by a weird twist of fate the film does well, it is going to force people to take another look at the "mold". Cause I am breaking it.

1- I TURNED DOWN investors that came to me with a half million dollar dangling from a string. Most filmmakers seek them actively (if not desperately)

2- I TURNED DOWN two big name actors that wanted to take a tiny part in my film. I want my film to have nothing but unknowns. Brand new, undiscovered TALENT. A very talented new face is in my book worth 100 not so talented "known names" that are actually not "stars" themselves because they NEVER had that "star" quality to them to begin with. But they got lucky to be in a film that got exposure at some point of time so people now know who they are and seek them for small projects, to boost the project's chance at getting distribution.

I want my film to fly on it's own two wings, not because of the name of some semi- known dude who was "someone" 10 years ago.

3- I MADE A FULL FEATURE FILM as my first film, when most people do shorts

4- I MADE A PERIOD FILM when it is said to be the biggest NO NO to indie new filmmakers.

5- I MADE IT MYSELF doing everything, when it is said that you need a "big crew" to pull it off.

6- I MADE IT WITHOUT A REAL BUDGET

7- I MADE IT WITHOUT HAVING EVER SET FOOT AT A FILM SCHOOL OR WORKED ON A MOVIE SET.


So as you can see by reading above, I AM INSANE. And so far it is working for me (might not work for you though so I am not implying this is a recipe, on the contrary it is an ANTI - RECIPE.)

If I fail pathetically you guys can all laugh at me and say: "she should have known better" - but if I SUCCEED then....

All hell breaks lose.

:thumbup:
 
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Like I've said for so many years in the music business (which I know you've been in too, Faith), it's all about the finished product. If it's not *really* good, no one's gonna care how you did it, what it cost, who wrote it, who the lead actor was, what camera you used, etc. etc. etc.... If it's great, they'll care about *all* of those things. Even more so if it's a low budget indie, directed by a woman, a first time feature, etc.

So...set your standards on "great" and don't let yourself off the hook, especially in any of the three key areas:

#1: Storytelling
#1: Storytelling
#3: Storytelling

Which is only slightly a joke. You could add (or substitute) "idea" "script" and "editing/pacing", respectively, to the above three, but they're all subsets of story, without a great example of which, you'll have pretty much nothing. Sure, there are some famous exceptions, but it's true 99% of the time, and one would be ill advised to bet on 1% odds.

Then of course there's also:

#4: Acting
#5: Everything else

And to be sure, star actors will get you somewhere, but with a weak story you'll still get pretty much nowhere, just more expensively than you would have without a star.

It's really, ultimately, all about the writing. Just like in the music biz...

Yet another of my $.02...

This place is costing me a fortune in pennies : )
 
Jerry seemed really cool too. Next time I drop by I'll have to check out the Deuce! Give me a ring when you want to drop the footage by. :)

Chris

Deuceofspades said:
**blush**

Are we talking about ME here?

PS: Where do I send the check LOL?

Chris, bot jerry and I thought you were super cool. I am excited to collaborate with you on those shots. cant' wait to see the bloody hood :). I edited an entire scene tonight and now I am too pooped to consider going anywhere. I'll dorp te files tomorrow nith I hope. I'll text you in a sec.
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visugeek said:
Jerry seemed really cool too. Next time I drop by I'll have to check out the Deuce! Give me a ring when you want to drop the footage by. :)

Chris
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Had a very long cast meeting after work yesterday and then when I got home I found that I needed to prepare photos for a Tchekoslovakian magazine that is on a dealine and is doing a write up about the film. I was at it until past midnight :( ...

Looks like we are looking at a file swap this week-end, more than likely Sunday evening.

Looks like I have a second Tchek magazine lined up and possibly some press in the UK now :)...

:thumbup:
 
No worries, free publicity is money you don't have to spend, so cudos!

Sunday night I'll be chillin with some friends watching the Oscars. Kung Foo Panda has a shot so we'll be having a drink with our fingers crossed! : )
 
visugeek said:
No worries, free publicity is money you don't have to spend, so cudos!

Sunday night I'll be chillin with some friends watching the Oscars. Kung Foo Panda has a shot so we'll be having a drink with our fingers crossed! : )
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BREAK A LEG :) - Maybe I'll drop off the CD Monday night then.

Going to a banquet at the NHRA museum tomorrow night. they're gonna play the teaser on their big screen :thumbup:... That will be cool.
 
That sounds like a plan. Good luck with the teaser screening, I'm sure that they are going to love it!
 
Deuceofspades said:
No investors, no crew, one woman and her camera.

I decide to break every single rule known to the small first time filmmaker: I will make a period film, I will make it full length, I will do it without involving financial investors and I will do everything myself:

Basically I will: Write the script, cast the actors, scout the location, secure the props, wardrobe, haul the gear, do the lighting, set-up the camera and shoot, pull my own focus, do all my shots myself, direct, monitor the sound, do the wardrobe hair and make up as well as special effect make up and FX, I will also edit and compose the soundtrack.
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Now although i think you're doing a great job, you are not exactly doing this alone, even your website says you have 12 crew members. lol

Good job though, in fact amazing! :)
 
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