EOS 5D MK II workaround: Converting 30p into 24p/25p

Emanuel said:
On topic, you are right. Different approaches indeed.
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Different results often require different approaches.

Emanuel said:
Wouldn't you suggest the low speed then?
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For what ?

Emanuel said:
In this case, since the video seems to be limited to the 1/30th and 1/125th, what would it be your suggestion?
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For what ?

Emanuel said:
Is a 125th shutter enough?
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For motion stabilization, motion tracking, compositing and so on ?
1/125th is not very fast but it helps a little as it removes some of the motion blur.

Emanuel said:
Or is a higher shutter speed strictly necessary for a good 24fps conversion?
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Ok, now you have gone off the rails again ! We were comparing A with B.

A: A filmic look (through the emulation of a specific shutter angle to render a certain amount of motion blur that is common to motion picture cameras with a 180 degree shutter)

. . . . with . . .

B: A very high shutter speed to freeze motion and make post production technique (such as motion stabilization and compositing) easier.

And now we have moved on to the question of is a high shutter speed necessary for a good 24fps conversion !

My answer to this unrelated question would be 'no', not at all, a high shutter speed is not necessary for a good 24fps conversion, I don't believe I have ever said it was.


:crybaby:
 
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Lee,

I thought you'd be defending a higher shutter speed in order to the best conditions for 24fps conversion.

Succeeding your own posting and others' opinion, it does seem obvious that's not an easy process.

In this case, also granted the fact you have a 5D Mark II with you -- and I not yet, you have some experience with these techniques, can you suggest the sweet spot for the shutter speed in order to the best 24fps conversion from 30p shooting?

E. :-)
 
Emanuel said:
Lee,

I thought you'd be defending a higher shutter speed in order to the best conditions for 24fps conversion.
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Why, who said a high shutter speed helps with a 24fps conversion? Certainly not me.

What I have said is that a high shutter speed helps with post processes like motion tracking and stabilizing.

OK, in case you don't realise . . . . :crybaby: [the sound of a man giving up the will to live] . . . converting your 30p footage to 25p has nothing at all to do with motion tracking or stablizing your footage.


Notice the pattern of my conversation . . . . .


Lee Wilson said:
It's a great way to do motion tracking - shoot at a high shutter speed
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Lee Wilson said:
Shooting a very high shutter speed freezes the image with no motion blur - making motion tracking (and other compositing) very easy.
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Lee Wilson said:
I am saying that for motion tracking / stabilizing - a very high shutter speed is very useful.
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Lee Wilson said:
I am talking about what is useful for motion tracking/stabilizing (a high shutter speed like 1/2000th to freeze motion).
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Emanuel said:
In this case, also granted the fact you have a 5D Mark II with you -- and I not yet, you have some experience with these techniques, can you suggest the sweet spot for the shutter speed in order to the best 24fps conversion from 30p shooting?

E. :-)
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Converting from 30p to 24p is largely unaffected by what shutter speed you use, I expect a slower shutter speed may help you hide any artifacting.

I think you are confusing shutter speed with time stretching and motion tracking with shutter angle ! :crybaby:
 
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I thought you were referring the same thing. I am not a techie. My background (on the filmmaking field) is coming from the aesthetics side. So let's take it as principle, I know nothing on the subject matter and I feel much comfortable.

My only goal is, since the 5D Mark II has no other movie frame rate than 30p, the best way for 24fps conversion. We are talking about shutter speed now.

@24fps, it's easy. 180 degrees 1/48th and that's it. But shooting with a 5D Mark II, it will mean the use of 30p. So, I'd like to know what's the best shutter speed for further 24fps conversion.

1) Are you simply saying is any shutter speed among 1/30th and 125th (limit range in video mode) suitable for the task? Is this what I can infer?

2) Considering we are shooting 30p, is 1/60th better than any other else?

3) Or is the 1/125th shutter speed better for 24fps conversion (taking in consideration some advantages you have been referring) ?
 
Emanuel said:
I am not a techie.
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No way ! :):2vrolijk_08:


Emanuel said:
My only goal is, since the 5D Mark II has no other movie frame rate than 30p, the best way for 24fps conversion.

1) Are you saying is any shutter speed among 1/30th and 125th (limit range in video mode) suitable for the task? Is this what I can infer?

2) Considering we are shooting 30p, is 1/60th better than any other else?

3) Or is the 1/125th shutter speed better for 24fps conversion (taking in consideration some advantages you have been referring) ?
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Point 3 made me cry. :crybaby:

What advantages have I been referring to that makes 1/125th better for a 24fps conversion ?

If you can answer this question, I will answer your other ones. :)
 
I think you already have your answer on the 1st line of your post quoting my prior one -- I asked you to have it as principle. :-)

Lee Wilson said:
What advantages have I been referring to that makes 1/125th better for a 24fps conversion ?
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Moreover and also 'cause everything in life can have an explanation (sometimes don't), it shouldn't be necessary to post it but I will. Here is:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1495951&postcount=113

You need to have a better reading on your own posting. You have been referring some advantage for a higher shutter speed on the compositing process (tracking, stabilizing) and the further addition of motion blur in order to make it look like 1/48th.

Since the subject is not other than the 24fps conversion, it's not odd to infer the same. You must pay attention to the information you pass to your interlocutor.

Can you now answer to my questions?
 
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Emanuel said:
Moreover and also 'cause everything in life can have an explanation (others don't), it shouldn't be necessary to post it but I will. Here is

Shooting a very high shutter speed freezes the image with no motion blur - making motion tracking (and other compositing) very easy.

Once you have done your tracking/stabilizing/compositing - you can then add the motion blur back in to make it look like 1/48.
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No part of that says that a high shutter speed is better for 24fps conversion, so try and out that out of your mind.
 
Emanuel said:
Can you now answer to my questions?
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I really don't think I can ! Your mind is a deep chasm of mystery and wonder, where pure unanchored ideas are free to copulate, and the children of these ideas float around and fight and then kill and eat each other and eventually mate to produce ever increasingly mutated offspring.

But I will try.

Emanuel said:
I'd like to know what's the best shutter speed for further 24fps conversion.


1) Are you simply saying is any shutter speed among 1/30th and 125th (limit range in video mode) suitable for the task? Is this what I can infer?
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Yes, any shutter speed will be more or less as successful as each other when it comes to being converted from 30fps to 24fps - although it is likely that lower shutter speeds (specifically their motion blur characteristics.) will better hide any artefacting that gets generated.

Emanuel said:
2) Considering we are shooting 30p, is 1/60th better than any other else?
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For converting to 24fps ? No, 1/60th will yield no real advantages I can think of ?

But . . . of course 1/60th will perfectly emulate a 180 degree shutter angle giving it a more filmic look - so it is worth using 1/60th for this reason alone- even if it has no bearing on the 30 to 24 fps conversion process.

Emanuel said:
3) Or is the 1/125th shutter speed better for 24fps conversion (taking in consideration some advantages you have been referring) ?
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No one has said 1/125th is better for 24fps conversions, so the answer would be 'no'.

All clear !

[get's on his knees and prays to one of the popular imaginary gods]
 
Nearly forgot . . . .

:zombie_smiley: :zombie_smiley: :zombie_smiley: :crybaby: :crybaby: :zombie_smiley: :zombie_smiley: :crybaby:
 
Yes, you must not forget your usual smileys. :dankk2: anyway for your input. Some trouble for putting a simple response out. Hard but at last, there it is. </sigh>
 
Emanuel said:
Yes, you must not forget your usual smileys. :dankk2: anyway for your input. Some trouble for putting a simple response out. Hard but at last, there it is. </sigh>
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:)

The man who asks poor questions will always complain about the quality of the answers he gets.


Here they come . . . . . .
:zombie_smiley: :zombie_smiley: :zombie_smiley: :crybaby: :zombie_smiley: :crybaby:
 
Lee Wilson said:
:)

The man who asks poor questions will always complain about the quality of the answers he gets.


Here they come . . . . . .
:zombie_smiley: :zombie_smiley: :zombie_smiley: :crybaby: :zombie_smiley: :crybaby:
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Complaining about what, Lee?

I think you're just too much confused. Go to sleep. And take a lesson for free (I am used to be paid when I am giving lessons out there):

When someone gives us a compliment, a show off is the worst manner to appreciate it. It is just sad. No more, no less.

EDIT -- Acknowledgement done, no insult intended :-)
 
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Emanuel said:
Complaining about what, Lee?

I think you're just too much confused. Go to sleep. And take a lesson for free (I am used to be paid when I am giving lessons out there):

When someone gives us a compliment, a show off is the worst manner to appreciate it. It is just sad. No more, no less.
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Hmmm . . . ?

I answered your questions, insult is not really necessary.
 
mattsand said:
yeah, you're the eurotrotter, he only goes 10 meters from his house. which is why i found it surprising that you said he was doing his tests globally. :-)

i'm coming to paris on saturday btw, staying until the 28th.

/matt
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Mattias,

Take a glance on it -- I am not in Paris (just a joke but not mine):

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1495632&postcount=92

I am in Rome nowadays (till Christmas at least).

It would be fine to meet you anywhere, I hope soon! :beer:

Emanuel :-)
 
I know you're not in paris, and i know for sure lee isn't. I think you said you travel a lot though so who knows. As for joking sorry for the low quality but you still haven't gotten mine. :-)
 
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