FCP vs. Avid vs. Vegas - Anyone????
- Thread starter SeaMonkey
- Start date
Thanks PerroneFord, that's great commentary on Vegas. And another good point from Dick Campbell, since I would be working with the P2 MXF.
Thanks to you both for the info. I'm building a good NLE system profile for this Christmas, and at this rate will purchase one of them by January 09.
Anyone else want to chimein about what they like about their NLE is welcome. really appreciate those who are willing to disclose their NLE preferences to help me decide what I want to invest in.
Cheers,
Sea Monkey
Thanks to you both for the info. I'm building a good NLE system profile for this Christmas, and at this rate will purchase one of them by January 09.
Anyone else want to chimein about what they like about their NLE is welcome. really appreciate those who are willing to disclose their NLE preferences to help me decide what I want to invest in.
Cheers,
Sea Monkey
Thanks ChipG but I don't think I'll be spending anymore with Avid at this stage... you'll probably need a MOJO to run it properly and that would be a few extra k's again... I never believed in MOJO... kinda feel it will be just another expensive box sitting around the office collecting dust in a few years....
I remember when the first MOJO's came out and they were never going to be SDI... so whoever spent the 3k on them are collecting dust...
I'm not saying that Media Composer is not a good editing system.. it's just not as good value in my opinion... heck it was not that long ago a MC system would cost you 30k...
There's one big misconception that I feel goes with Avid and I feel into this trap a few years ago... AVID is the main tool used in High End production... Blockbusters etc.... So if I use Avid then I'm playing with the same tools as the big fella's... heck I can tell my clients that I'm editing on a scaled down system that they used on the Matrix etc... Makes me sound good and the tools I'm using inspires confidence... but the reality is you get what you pay for.. MC and Mojo is probably a good set up but it's no Symphony... the tools the big fella's use is a vastly more powerful beast than the entry versions....
And learning and using Avid can open doors as an editor is also a fallacy.. Editing is editing no matter what app you use... any good editor can within a day get the understand how a new system works.. might not be as happy on it but you'll use the tools your given...
Geeze that ended up being a rant....
My 2c
I remember when the first MOJO's came out and they were never going to be SDI... so whoever spent the 3k on them are collecting dust...
I'm not saying that Media Composer is not a good editing system.. it's just not as good value in my opinion... heck it was not that long ago a MC system would cost you 30k...
There's one big misconception that I feel goes with Avid and I feel into this trap a few years ago... AVID is the main tool used in High End production... Blockbusters etc.... So if I use Avid then I'm playing with the same tools as the big fella's... heck I can tell my clients that I'm editing on a scaled down system that they used on the Matrix etc... Makes me sound good and the tools I'm using inspires confidence... but the reality is you get what you pay for.. MC and Mojo is probably a good set up but it's no Symphony... the tools the big fella's use is a vastly more powerful beast than the entry versions....
And learning and using Avid can open doors as an editor is also a fallacy.. Editing is editing no matter what app you use... any good editor can within a day get the understand how a new system works.. might not be as happy on it but you'll use the tools your given...
Geeze that ended up being a rant....
My 2c
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Not at our company. If an editor's reel looks good, they get interviewed by our post super, who is a long time AVID guy. If they cannot fly on the AVID specifically, in front of his eyes (he has an AVID in his office), they they don't get hired.
We, as producers, can hire editors to work at home on FCP, but as far as staff editors, if you don't know AVID inside out, you cannot be hired. I know of a few other production companies that are this way in LA although I do agree with you that if you are really good on FCS, you can get work.
Dan
All cool... but you can learn AVID inside out using the Free Version... the editing is limited to 2 tracks as I recall.. but you can certainly get your head around the work flow...
Obviously spending huge amounts of time in an app is going to make you feel more comfortable in using it...
I think creative people are recognized for their talent and knowledge...
Cheers
Obviously spending huge amounts of time in an app is going to make you feel more comfortable in using it...
I think creative people are recognized for their talent and knowledge...
Cheers
Chip.
Where do you find support for those figures?
Where do you find support for those figures?
alexdias
Well-known member
I don't remember details of the spread, but at the 2007 NAB during a workshop with various industry representatives the host opened the session with these numbers.
If you visit the major studios/TV stations or post houses in Los Angeles you'll probably see more Avids than any other NLE, but I would not say 90%. Maybe 70%.
But that's just my impression.
In a book about Avid by Sam Kauffman, third edition ISBN 13: 978-0-240-80816-1
On page xxiii in the introducton Sam says the following:
"The Avid continues to be the dominant player in the film and television industry. It is used on 85% of all feature films and 95% of all prime-time telivision shows. The Avid's SD & HD lineup is used by the Big Four Networks in the United States and most of the networks overseas."
I took the two numbers and averaged them to 90%. It's not a secret, you can google it and find hundreds of publications that all say the same thing.
FCP is an awesome program and I do wish it were used more by the top / big dogs but it is not. Great program though.
Okay, wow. I am impressed. Whereas I really hadn't considered FCP before, I am leaning that way now. I think that Vegas sounds like a great program, but has the ceiling/limits of authoring without collaboration across the industry. That makes sense to me. If I spedn the time to learn FCP, or Avid, it sounds like I'll always be able to move farther into the realm of professional editing if I choose to after my project is done.
PS - I work at a University, Texas State University. I can probably wrangle a student-priced copy.
I'm not crazy about plopping down big $$$ for a MAC Pro system, so I'd love to hear what sort of systems you guys think are relatively effecient at making FCP work. Same for Avid. Systems anyone?
Thanks a heap so far, this has been very valuable.
Sea Monkey
PS - I work at a University, Texas State University. I can probably wrangle a student-priced copy.
I'm not crazy about plopping down big $$$ for a MAC Pro system, so I'd love to hear what sort of systems you guys think are relatively effecient at making FCP work. Same for Avid. Systems anyone?
Thanks a heap so far, this has been very valuable.
Sea Monkey
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Sea:
Learn both.
You can run FCP on almost all Macs unless they are really old but you lose certain features and applications unless you have Apple's latest and greatest hardware. I am on a dual 2.3gHz G5 and while all of the FCP work fine, I cannot capture Pro Res and I cannot run Color. No big deals for me at this point but if I have a need for those features, I will have to update to a newer Intel Mac Pro.
Dan
Learn both.
You can run FCP on almost all Macs unless they are really old but you lose certain features and applications unless you have Apple's latest and greatest hardware. I am on a dual 2.3gHz G5 and while all of the FCP work fine, I cannot capture Pro Res and I cannot run Color. No big deals for me at this point but if I have a need for those features, I will have to update to a newer Intel Mac Pro.
Dan
TedRR
Well-known member
While AVID and FCP are considered the "Standards", we've been very happy with NewTek's SpeedEDIT. It's PC based and about as simple to learn and use as it gets.
It also handles our beloved .mxf files without conversion or copying additional files on your hard drive.
Worth a look for sure.
It also handles our beloved .mxf files without conversion or copying additional files on your hard drive.
Worth a look for sure.
Nobody's really mentioned it here but the Adobe Creative Suite Video is also an excellent package... not a great fan of Premiere but After Effects is my favorite app.. the whole package is pretty sweet...
Generally you'll need Photoshop at some stage.. and Encore and Audition are also good apps...
... comes in a little more $$$ than the FCP bundle...
Cheers
Generally you'll need Photoshop at some stage.. and Encore and Audition are also good apps...
... comes in a little more $$$ than the FCP bundle...
Cheers
TedRR
Well-known member
I'll second Lez's reply. I'm no fan of Premier, but PhotoShop, After Effects and Encore are worth the price alone. Not to mention all the other apps you get that we use from time to time.
Great production company toolset. Now if I could only get myself to like Adobe as a company!
But ya gotta like thier tools.
Great production company toolset. Now if I could only get myself to like Adobe as a company!
But ya gotta like thier tools.Seamonkey,
FCP is a great program, but don't forget it doesn't handle MXFs native. Avid can be persnicity about hardware - the company REALLY wants you to use certified (expensive) hardware. Edius & Premiere can run on most any hardware - especially Edius which is very fast to work with.
Panagiotis
FCP is a great program, but don't forget it doesn't handle MXFs native. Avid can be persnicity about hardware - the company REALLY wants you to use certified (expensive) hardware. Edius & Premiere can run on most any hardware - especially Edius which is very fast to work with.
Panagiotis
Shane Ross
Veteran
But it can with third party options, like Calibrated, Raylight and my favorite, MXF4QT.
I am going to completely disagree with you here. When Avid came out with Express Pro, you could use it well without hardware. And even now, with Media Composer 3.0, you don't need hardware. I have it running quite smoothly on TWO macs right now (G4 Laptop, MacPro) and I don't have the hardware. Which I agree, is friggin expensive. The Mojo DX is nearly 3 times the cost of the Kona 3, and has half the features.
When I said hardware, I didn't mean mojo etc, I meant the computer hardware itself. In the PC world at least, I'm sure the Mac, being a "standard" product would be less problematical. And I meant FCP can't edit MXFs mative without third party support.
Made a decision - much thanks to you all.
Made a decision - much thanks to you all.
Sea Monkey here. Decided to take the plunge.
I just ordered a new 17" Mac Book Pro., 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB, 320GB Serial ATA @ 7200, SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW).
I've been a PC guys so far, dabbling in MACs at work only. It's a big $$$ hit, but I think it'll give me the portability I want and preserve a reasonable amount of performance for the short stuff I am doing. Besides, with the Intel-based MACs, I can always wipe it and install Windows.
Also my school will sell me a new Final Cut Pro Studio 2 for $500.00. I'm going that route.
I did check out SpeedEdit, and Avid. Thanks to Andrew Hoffman of
Specialized Communications Corp. for sending me the tutorials on Avid.
I was really close to trying Speededit, particularly for it's proported ability to work directly on native clips, and the audio-snap feature for sequencing of clips to music. I still may try it.
I'm choosing to go with FCP in large part due to it's proven ability, broad-based use already in the industry, and finally because the guys up here at the school use it in the studios and have adopted me as their pet-project. Can't turn down that sort of guidance.
Just about everyone who posted had some part in helping me. Thanks so much.
Cheers,
Sea Monkey
Made a decision - much thanks to you all.
Sea Monkey here. Decided to take the plunge.
I just ordered a new 17" Mac Book Pro., 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB, 320GB Serial ATA @ 7200, SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW).
I've been a PC guys so far, dabbling in MACs at work only. It's a big $$$ hit, but I think it'll give me the portability I want and preserve a reasonable amount of performance for the short stuff I am doing. Besides, with the Intel-based MACs, I can always wipe it and install Windows.
Also my school will sell me a new Final Cut Pro Studio 2 for $500.00. I'm going that route.
I did check out SpeedEdit, and Avid. Thanks to Andrew Hoffman of
Specialized Communications Corp. for sending me the tutorials on Avid.
I was really close to trying Speededit, particularly for it's proported ability to work directly on native clips, and the audio-snap feature for sequencing of clips to music. I still may try it.
I'm choosing to go with FCP in large part due to it's proven ability, broad-based use already in the industry, and finally because the guys up here at the school use it in the studios and have adopted me as their pet-project. Can't turn down that sort of guidance.
Just about everyone who posted had some part in helping me. Thanks so much.
Cheers,
Sea Monkey
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Congrats Sea Monkey.
I would suggest hanging out at the www.lafcpug.com website, there are some of the best FCP editors in the buisness who hang there and they are by no means all in LA. Also, the best FCP specific website with FCP-centered articles and white papers out there is www.kenstone.net (yes, I am biased, I write a lot for Ken).
FCP is kind of like Photoshop, super easy to use but really deep. It could take a decade to really master it but it is easy to learn and grow with.
Dan
I would suggest hanging out at the www.lafcpug.com website, there are some of the best FCP editors in the buisness who hang there and they are by no means all in LA. Also, the best FCP specific website with FCP-centered articles and white papers out there is www.kenstone.net (yes, I am biased, I write a lot for Ken).
FCP is kind of like Photoshop, super easy to use but really deep. It could take a decade to really master it but it is easy to learn and grow with.
Dan