FCP vs. Avid vs. Vegas - Anyone????

S

SeaMonkey

Member
:huh: Have the camera, AG-HVX 200A learning curve vertical - but fun! Gearing-up for a computer and software...need some advice from the senior community.

Which software works easiest with my camera? I want to travel, shoot-n-go, edit on the fly/in the field, and don't want to be tied to a desktop all the time.

Need a computer and software that will suffice for start to finish. Any advice?

Hit me...
 
Edius is the easiest for the hvx and has the best P2 integration, I also have Avid Media Composer 2.8 which does not support the P2 meta data.

I'd go with Edius if your going for ease of use and P2 integration. They might have a free 30 day trial on thier website.

If you want a mobile solution I just bought the cheapest laptop I could find (Fujitsu Lifebook A6120 with a decent size 200 gig hard drive, pcmcia slot and an EC slot from micro center on a close out for for $479.00) knowing that it will be trashed out in the field storm chasing I didn't want to go overboard. It is an intel duo 1.83g and 2 gigs of ram.

I thought I'd put Edius and Avid on it for the heck of it not expecting it to run HD 1080 footage but it does with no problems. Couldn't believe it! So there you go a mobile editing computer for P2 cards for under $500.00.

Hope this helps some.
 
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Also that's a Mac vs. PC question. Edius does not exist on the Mac and Avid is decent but probably slightly better supported on PC. Personally I think a consideration to make is what you plan to do with your skills other than edit your own stuff. If it's nothing, then go with whichever demo you like best. These are vastly different apps with their own approaches and features some might find more or less personally intuitive.

However, if you do want to market your skills as an editor, being an Avid or FCP editor is far more useful than an Edius editor. Avid is used to cut the majority of major motion pictures and a lot of TV. FCP is used to cut the more mid to low budget of both. Whatever's not FCP or Edius is Premiere, Vegas, and a whole lot of others that are progressively less useful sitting on your resume. My $.02.

Noah
 
I have the Avid 3.0 software, and can tell you that without a doubt, the workflow with Avid 3.0 and P2 is VERY slick. Native MXF support, INCLUDING metadata. FCP requires that you wrap it in quicktime (still not bad...you have to copy the footage to your media drive anyway), but FCP doesn't look at one scrap of metadata, not without third party solutions. But, if you get FCP and MXF4QT, the workflow is as slick, if not slicker, than the Avid 3.o workflow.

FCP workflow: http://library.creativecow.net/articles/ross_shane/p2fcp6.php (bear in mind that I ue the FINDER to copy the cards, that is no longer wise. Need software to offload cards, like Shotput P2 or P2CMS)

Avid P2 Workflow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLpdpf-yUwM

I don't know about Vegas. Used to have to use Raylight to get P2 into Vegas. Dunno about latest version.
 
-"Which software works easiest with my camera? I want to travel, shoot-n-go, edit on the fly/in the field, and don't want to be tied to a desktop all the time. "

Edius is the easiest of them all for working with P2 but things are getting better with some of the other nle's.

Noah is right if you want to edit for a living buy Avid. Ease and speed buy Edius.
 
If you're looking for editing "jobs", then I'd say any such employment which might be available to a newer editor is going to be on FCP. Every job I read about is FCP. Maybe the big ol' boys are still cutting Avid, but the jobs available to the paeons are not.

That said...I'm on Avid, and I really don't like Final Cut Pro (aka Render Cut Pro). Avid has become much more cost effective (cutting the price for Media Composer in half). And the features are immense. I just really dig Avid.
 
Thanks for the info thus far...much appreciated.

Thanks for the info thus far...much appreciated.

Looks like it really comes down to FCP or AVID. Love to hear anyone talk about Vegas HD --seems inexpensive and I keep hearing testimonies of someone's third-cousin-twice-removed really....liking it. ?

:huh: Any more advice on what sort of rig you'd run these things on would be a great help too.

I mean, what does it realllly take to run these apps - from those of you who actually use it.

Thanks and cheers,

SeaMonkey
 
I cut on Vegas. I do corporate video, but I do not do movies. That said, I can do most things the big boys can do, and it comes in one box. There are weaknesses to Vegas though, particularly it's titling. They tried to improve in recently, but it still doesn't hold a candle to dedicated apps.

However, for not a lot of money, I can transcode nearly anything to anything else. I can render 5.1 audio, I have a mixer that is limited in channels only by RAM, I can cut BluRay, I can speed ramp and color grade, and work with 10bit video files. All without leaving my timeline. I can nest, I can collaborate with AAF or (weak) OMF, and do many other things.

Frankly, the program is a steal. Minor upgrades are free, and major upgrades are typically $99. What does it cost to go from major version to major version on Avid or FCP/FCS?

Vegas does NOT leverage a GPU, so you DO need a bunch of RAM, and a hot CPU to make it sing. However, you do not need to drop a boatload on a graphics card, which can be a money saver in itself.

I have cut with Canopus/Premiere, and MUCH prefer Vegas. From what I've seen of FCP, it's clunky compared to Vegas, though it enjoys a LOT of support. I've never cut on Avid so I can't say anything about it.
 
I think your decision is more about your career than your editing application. If you want to be a professional editor and work in "real" production, you need to learn and be fluent in AVID and FCS. These two apps own the professional market, period.

All of the other apps discussed here are used much more by "Islands" (people who do it all from A-Z) and don't need to interact with other media professionals (trade timelines, media files, OMFs, etc.) and hobbiests.

So if you will be an "Island" or are doing this as a hobby, try the apps mentioned, I know Barry raves about Edius for P2. If you aspire to become a professional editor, your two choices are clear and I would definitely learn both of them. The shop that I produce and shoot for is all AVID (9 Media Composers and a Nitris Symphony for on-line) but is on the edge of selling off all of their AVIDs and going Final Cut because all of the freelancers that want to work from home to off-line own FCS, not AVID. One of the producers also works at Pie Town, one of the biggest cable TV production companies in the world and they dumped AVID a few years ago and are all Final Cut. I could be wrong but I think that they may have upwards of 30-40 edit bays, all on FCS. AVID is great and more stable but is on the downhill in popularity and FCS is growing like crazy. You will be much more employable if you know both really well. I hire a lot of editors who normally work AVID and say that they know FCS. Then I sit down with them and they really aren't very good on FCS, they don't know the keyboard shortcuts and are slow and clunky when they can fly on AVID. You have to be equally as fast on either in my business. The last five projects I produced there, we offlined and on-lined on FCS, they bought a Kona like the one I have. Worked pretty well, shot on P2, offlined, then on-lined and output to HDCAM SR for Paramount. Passed QC, shows look great. On-line editor still hates FCP because he has his Symphony but even he admitted that the on-lines went pretty smoothly overall.

Dan
 
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Shane Ross said:
I have the Avid 3.0 software, and can tell you that without a doubt, the workflow with Avid 3.0 and P2 is VERY slick. Native MXF support, INCLUDING metadata.
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is this true with both PC and Mac? Looks like they might be running under bootcamp on a macbook pro in the youtube clip?
 
PerroneFord said:
As far as I know. I don't work with P2 MXF.
Click to expand...

Vegas is a pain in the ass for P2 and mxf files although a pretty decent editing program for ease, you have to convert all the P2 mxf files with a 3rd party $200 program before you can start editing with them in Vegas.

If you are out in the field doing run and gun stuff and want to do quick edits on the fly you won't be able to, same for Final Cut Pro, with Final Cut you have to wrap or unwrap the files before you can start editing them unless that has changed in the newest version?

There still aren't alot of native P2 ediditng programs out there, I think it's Edius, Avid & Premiere?

I did see in another thread that someone is selling a new version of Avid 3.0 for something like $1250 complete with license transfer and dongle. Heck 6 months ago that software was $5000, they did just drop the price to $2495 retail.

To give you the best advice we really need to know if you want to edit for a living? Edit on the fly for run n gun field work? What your budget is and are you a mac or pc guy or either one?
 
ChipG said:
Vegas is a pain in the ass for P2 and mxf files although a pretty decent editing program for ease, you have to convert all the P2 mxf files with a 3rd party $200 program before you can start editing with them in Vegas.
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That's too bad. My MXF files just drop right in.
 
Yea, you have to buy a program called Ray Light and convert them first. It is a pain in the ass, unless Vegas has added native P2 mxf support in the last week or two?
 
Avid is $2500...unless you are a student then it is $300. And the P2 import is native (even with AVCintra) and instant. Consolidating to the media drive is the only time consuming thing...but takes the EXACT amount of time that it takes FCP to convert the MXF files to Quicktime. So yes, editing MXF with Avid is quick, but you still need to spend time copying from the cards to your media drive.

FCP is $1200, and if you want the slick Avid workflow of Native MXF editing, you can get MXF4QT for about $500, or Raylight for $200, Calibrated for $80, or HDLOG Bronze for $400. MXF4QT is the best for working with MXF natively, however.
 
Hey SeaMonkey,

I went back and read your original post and you said:

-"Which software works easiest with my camera? I want to travel, shoot-n-go, edit on the fly/in the field, and don't want to be tied to a desktop all the time. "

Edius is the best one for what you said above unless you want to edit for a living and if you do you should go with the new Avid 3.0. FCP is an awesome program but just not a good one for fast run n gun field editing on the fly kinda work.

With Edius you do not have to spend time consolodating your footage to the media bin or drive to keep it online like you have to in Avid.
 
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Dick Campbell said:
Doesn't Vegas still need third party app to support P2 MXF?
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Yes. You need DV Film's Raylight plugin to use P2 with Vegas.

http://www.spec-comm.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=370

Andrew Hoffman
Vice President
Specialized Communications Corp.
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
andrewh@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com

Please visit our new online store at ( http://www.spec-comm.com/store ). New products being added daily!
 
SeaMonkey said:
:huh: Have the camera, AG-HVX 200A learning curve vertical - but fun! Gearing-up for a computer and software...need some advice from the senior community.

Which software works easiest with my camera? I want to travel, shoot-n-go, edit on the fly/in the field, and don't want to be tied to a desktop all the time.

Need a computer and software that will suffice for start to finish. Any advice?

Hit me...
Click to expand...

Hey SeaMonkey,

If you like, I can send you P2 Workflow tutorials for most of the popular NLE platforms. Just PM me your mailing address and I'll get them out to you today.

Andrew Hoffman
Vice President
Specialized Communications Corp.
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
andrewh@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com

Please visit our new online store at ( http://www.spec-comm.com/store ). New products being added daily!
 
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