So, how is Premiere CS4?

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

No. You can remove the pulldown through Compressor or Cinema Tools, though.

Aaahhh.... does Compressor come with Final Cut?

 

[PadawanGeek]

The timeline-specific frame rate is gonna be really helpful to me..

Lets go find $600 =/

Problem is, the HV20 has no pulldown flags embedded in its data stream; no editor will be able to do it automatically, like it can be done with other cameras which do embed the flags.

But AE can do it with just a couple of clicks. Can CS4 do it like that?

 

[David Jimerson]

Aaahhh.... does Compressor come with Final Cut?

It comes with the suite, yes.

 

[joshtownsend]

material.

I've written a CS4/P2 workflow paper which hopefully Panasonic will have up on their site soon; a lot of this stuff is detailed in it.



Not sure what that means?

I mean if put audio in from a tv show, movie or anything were people talk with emotion it doesn't transcribe worth a damn. Only a narrator or somebody speaking very slow and perfect will transcribe with any usable accuracy. I was having a laugh at what it came up with during my footage as well as some movie monologues

Not slamming it. I never figured it could do all that. It's useless just for me anyway. I wish they would have put there resources into making 24pa work like it did and like it does in EVERY other program.

I actually switched over to Premiere from Vegas once it got Native P2 support.

I brought in a reel that was already cut from cs3 and started correcting it and doing FX. I tweaked more than a few cuts but didn't drop in any new footage until a 5 days ago. That's when I found out the problem.

Of course there is no aff export anymore and cs3 won't open cs4 project files. I just shot some pick up's for the reel. So know what do about the other reels, some still need to fine cut those? Or the trailer? I guess I can render the reel out uncompressed and take it back into cs3 when I put the thing together. So much for being able to work without rendering in Adobe for this project. And I used to brag to oanyone who would listen Abode being able to do everything in Adobe without rendering.

So hopefully can understand why I'm p****d. I also need AFF to give the sound mixer, hopefully that'll be coming this month.

 

[David Jimerson]

But AE can do it with just a couple of clicks. Can CS4 do it like that?

But it doesn't do it automatically, which was my point. And you're taking a little bit of a gamble when you choose "Guess 3:2;" you have to be sure you're actually starting on a A frame. Otherwise, you end up with ghosting or other artifacts.

Anyway, Premiere's Interpret Footage doesn't work the same way.

 

[Danilo]

You can even output your HD timeline via firewire (it's not in HD, it gets converted down to SD) to an external monitor, something you couldn't do in Premiere CS3.

But if my original HD video is 16:9 how I see it in SD on my monitor (via firewire) anamorphic or letterbox?

 

[David Jimerson]

I mean if put audio in from a tv show, movie or anything were people talk with emotion it doesn't transcribe worth a damn. Only a narrator or somebody speaking very slow and perfect will transcribe with any usable accuracy. I was having a laugh at what it came up with during my footage as well as some movie monologues

Not slamming it. I never figured it could do all that. It's useless just for me anyway.

Well, OK -- but remember, if you're taking dialogue from a movie or TV show, there are a lot of other sounds in the background; the cleaner the dialogue track, the better it works.

In any case, no, it's far from perfect.

I wish they would have put there resources into making 24pa work like it did and like it does in EVERY other program.

But it doesn't work like that in every other program; even having to interpret the footage, you're still better off than in FCP or Avid.

Of course there is no aff export anymore and cs3 won't open cs4 project files. I just shot some pick up's for the reel. So know what do about the other reels, some still need to fine cut those? Or the trailer? I guess I can render the reel out uncompressed and take it back into cs3 when I put the thing together. So much for being able to work without rendering in Adobe for this project. And I used to brag to oanyone who would listen Abode being able to do everything in Adobe without rendering.

So hopefully can understand why I'm p****d. I also need AFF to give the sound mixer, hopefully that'll be coming this month.

Understandable -- but there aren't many programs where an older version can open a newer version's files.

 

[joshtownsend]

"Understandable -- but there aren't many programs where an older version can open a newer version's files."

There also aren't many programs that don't export AFF. If I were you, I'd be grateful for the beta and all but I would have made a huge fuss over the lack a proper 24pa support. At least they could have mentioned somewhere. Instead they act like CS4 is ahead of it's time for tapeless support. Hell EDIUS has been able to pulldown 24p as well as different framerate clips in the same comp for years.

I'm making a trailer, lots of small cuts but real sucky when you have to :
Drag the file from 'media browser' into the project, interpret it, then double click what you interpreted in the project file and lastly go back and put your in and out points and then oh yeah click again to drag it into your project.

It wouldn't be that bad if you could drag your clips into the timeline, then interpret all of them. But the interpret doesn't stick to files already in the timeline.

I mainly feel stupid for making excuses for CS4 to everyone then finding it's very unfriendly to filmmaking and they never mention you have to wait 4-6 months before they fix it.

Jim, Anyway you could hook me up with White Paper you wrote? I appreciate you coming clean about this. I've been on the Adobe forum and it's like everyone is in denial and it must be user error. Thanks a bunch man. This has been like CS4's ugly stepchild they hide in the cellar. I honestly wouldn't have bought it had I know I had to wait untill next year for 24pa to work correctly.

I mean isn't 24pa what basically made this forum 5 or 6 years years ago, Sad Adobe releases a new product that chokes so bad. If I shot with a DVX still I wouldn't even upgrade and would still be editing in VEGAS. Hell Vegas 8.1 is 64 bit native even.

However your white paper might change my mind? Hook a fellow DVXer up

 

[David Jimerson]

"Understandable -- but there aren't many programs where an older version can open a newer version's files."

There also aren't many programs that don't export AFF.

That is true. But you'll find AIFF in the Media Encoder. It's not in the same place as it is in CS3, but it's there.

If I were you, I'd be grateful for the beta and all but I would have made a huge fuss over the lack a proper 24pa support.

Pardon? As I mentioned above, I did indeed make a fuss over it, and it was a huge, huge unrelenting "oh God, there's Jimerson and his 24p thing again" fuss. The 4.0.2 update -- which will restore automatic pulldown removal -- is happening mostly because I made that fuss.

I'm making a trailer, lots of small cuts but real sucky when you have to :
Drag the file from 'media browser' into the project, interpret it, then double click what you interpreted in the project file and lastly go back and put your in and out points and then oh yeah click again to drag it into your project.

But the only extra step involved is the Interpret Footage step; you can do that for all of your clips at once. No, it's not the way it should be, but it's not all that onerous, either.

It wouldn't be that bad if you could drag your clips into the timeline, then interpret all of them. But the interpret doesn't stick to files already in the timeline.

As I said, you can select them all in the Properties window and Interpret them all as one before you take them to the timeline. And it WILL affect clips in the timeline; I did it about a hundred times and just did it a moment ago to be sure.

Jim, Anyway you could hook me up with White Paper you wrote?

It'll be available on the Panasonic site before too long (hopefully no later than next week); it's not something I can share before that.

I appreciate you coming clean about this. I've been on the Adobe forum and it's like everyone is in denial and it must be user error. Thanks a bunch man. This has been like CS4's ugly stepchild they hide in the cellar.

I have no reason to hide anything; I don't work for Adobe . . .

I honestly wouldn't have bought it had I know I had to wait untill next year for 24pa to work correctly.

Well, I told them that this exact reaction would happen. In any case, it's only a few months, not a whole year.

 

[joshtownsend]

Thanks for everything sorry if I'm being a whiner. Because your the only person to confirm this on the net as far as I can tell I actually believe your the sole reason they're gonna fix the 24pa crap. Thank you.

I didn't mean AIF files I meant AAF files like the ones that let you take the your project (minus fx) into other programs. In CS3 it PROJECT-"Export as AAF". That way I could take it back to CS3 with my cuts intact. In CS4 it is no where. If you tell me it's coming as an update I might scream.

I also miss being able to FILE- EXPORT FRAME for being able to capture stills. I know you can do it in Adobe Media Encoder. JUST A FEW MORE CLICKS.

I feel like hurting someone eveerytime I hear that. Not you though Jim, I'm really glad you were there to point that out and glad you did the screaming.


Premiere CS4 lost as many features as it gained.

 

[Eric1138]

Josh - AAF support is coming as an update.

But also included in that update is OMF support, XML project import (from FCP), Edit to Audition, and who knows what other bug fixes. So it should be a great update. And seeing how CS4 was just released not even a month ago, I think that's pretty fast for an update.

The way it was explained over on the Adobe Forum page was that there were bugs in the AAF function, and they weren't ready for the release date, so they waited so they could get it right. (http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b6d4c9/0)

That sounds fine with me - get it right rather then release it. It should be sometime this month I hear for the update, so it shouldn't be too much longer.

As for the 24P issue, yeah it should have been fixed, but the work around isn't that tough - it's just a few extra clicks for a couple months until the next patch, and then all will be normal. If that's the biggest fault with CS4, that's fine by me - I remember PPro 1.5 and the way 24P footage would flicker in overexposed areas...now that was an annoying bug!

CS4 is a welcome version - I'm loving it so far!

 

[Mike Harvey]

I'm just hoping the AVCHD support in general is improved, because I've been thoroughly underwelmed by it. It's buggy and crash prone, and as stated in a thread in the HMC150 section, I get this weird "solarization" and artifacting when playing back footage, or it simply hangs on a frame while the audio keeps playing (then crashes when it's done). The whole reason I got the upgrade from CS3 was to use it with my HMC150. :angry:

To be fair, I haven't played with the rest of it, and it appears by and large to be an improvement. But the improvements don't do me any good without the proper AVCHD support they advertised when it was shipped.

 

[Eric1138]

If it makes you feel any better, Mike, the same thing happens to me - and I've got a pretty powerful computer! To fix the image problem, try adjusting your monitor viewing quality from automatic to highest - that should improve image quality while working with the footage. However, if you've got a machine that can't handle the footage, it'll play back real choppy. I know that to work with AVCHD you've got to have a pretty beefy system.

As for the hanging on a frame and continuing to play the audio, not sure what causes that, but it seems to happen once when I open a project, then it doesn't do it again - and even then it doesn't happen all the time. BUt it doesn't crash for me - jsut hangs, then returns to normal.

How do you like the HMC-150? I'm still considering buying one. I shoot some test fotoage with it at DV Expo last week, and it looks really good.

 

[Mike Harvey]

2.4 GHz quad-core, 8 gig of RAM, Nvidia 8600GTS with the latest drivers, 1TB striped array for video, and separate drives for the OS (Vista 64) and CS4. Yeah, it's beefy :laugh:.

By "monitor viewing quality", what do you mean? Are your referring to the hardware acceleration on the GPU itself, or is this some setting in Premiere that I'm just unaware of? I only installed it Friday evening, and have been working ever since, so I haven't been able to poke around too much. I loaded the default setting for AVCHD 1080p/24.

As to how I like the HMC150... I've only had it a week. I'm fortunate enough to work for a TV station where the guy in charge of the studio lighting is a veritable genius, and was able to bring it in and tweak the settings under the studio lights. All I can say is... wow. That's why I'm personally frustrated with CS4. I have this wonderful camera that takes gorgeous images and I can't edit it's footage like I thought I could. Mercifully, I don't have any jobs for it for the rest of this year, so hopefully the two upcoming updates will correct the issues before I need to make some money with it. I will say this, once the CS4 editing issues are resolved, I would really recommend it if you're considering it.

 

[Eric1138]

By "monitor viewing quality", what do you mean? Are your referring to the hardware acceleration on the GPU itself, or is this some setting in Premiere that I'm just unaware of? I only installed it Friday evening, and have been working ever since, so I haven't been able to poke around too much. I loaded the default setting for AVCHD 1080p/24.

In the top right corner of the program monitor, there's a small icon - I think it looks like three small lines. Right click on that, and a pop out window should open up. You should then see the quality seatings - Highest, draft, automatic...set it to highest and you've got better quality. If in automatic mode, PPro adjusts the quality of the image to give you the smoothest playback - which from what you described sounds like what I saw when I put it in auto mode.

Your final output should look fine...

Good to hear about the HMC-150. It looks like a really great camera. I'm debating whether to get that, the EX-3, or wait and see what Red announces for the new Scarlet camera...

 

[Mike Harvey]

In the top right corner of the program monitor, there's a small icon - I think it looks like three small lines. Right click on that, and a pop out window should open up. You should then see the quality seatings - Highest, draft, automatic...set it to highest and you've got better quality. If in automatic mode, PPro adjusts the quality of the image to give you the smoothest playback - which from what you described sounds like what I saw when I put it in auto mode.

I guess you learn something new everyday. Thanks for the tip, I'll do that when I get home from work. I figured out a work around so it doesn't lock up when playing back (I guess it had to do with the way I was importing the footage files).

Your final output should look fine...

Groovy, that's good to know.

Good to hear about the HMC-150. It looks like a really great camera. I'm debating whether to get that, the EX-3, or wait and see what Red announces for the new Scarlet camera...

Yeah, the higher res 1/2" chips and shoulder mount of the EX3 would be nice, and the footage would be easier to edit... I just can't justify the extra $6k + media costs. But this isn't my primary source of income, either. It will be interesting to see what the new Scarlet (or whatever they end up calling it) does. Regardless of whatever the Scarlet's specs eventually are, I have no regrets about buying the HMC. It's a whole lot of camera for the $3k-$5k market.

 

[Mike Harvey]

In the top right corner of the program monitor, there's a small icon - I think it looks like three small lines. Right click on that, and a pop out window should open up. You should then see the quality seatings - Highest, draft, automatic...set it to highest and you've got better quality. If in automatic mode, PPro adjusts the quality of the image to give you the smoothest playback - which from what you described sounds like what I saw when I put it in auto mode.

That did the trick. However, it still seems to want to lock up once and a while by freezing the video on a frame, but play the audio until the end of the clip, then crashing.

 

[dory_breaux]

Premiere CS4 is awesome! Everything I loved about CS3 but more. Its a tad more sluggisher, but it renders faster and the dynamic link is SO much better. Twixtor is having some issues with it though... I LOVE having the AE like sequence settings instead of project settings.

 

[Fohdeesha]

For me cs4 is much more sluggish than cs3, to the point of being unusable. I can edit my 720p or 1080p xdcam ex footage perfectly smooth and fine in cs3, however in cs4 I cannot even play it back without it juddering, lagging, or skipping. I'm running XP with 3 gigs of ram, a 2.4ghz dualcore amd, and an 8800gt. There's no excuse for that kind of performance.

And yes, I've tried automatic, draft, and highest quality settings.

 

[pathfinder]

Thanks for all the feedbacks everyone. I tried the trial version and seems like there are just too many bugs for what it is. Maybe I'll wait for a while.

For now, Edius is my "New Love".