HPX170 Lens Wobble Improved

weixiang623 said:
Jeff, I hope you counted me as one of those that have wiggle, because... it does =/
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Hi Willis,

No, I thought you were not having any issues and your Zacuto riser was holding the adapter firmly. That would make 12 to 5, the former in the "wiggle" category.

I think it's important to note that a 35mm adapter, even when bolted to the rails, is still part of a camera system--it is connected to the camera and the prime lens,
adapter and camera/internal lens all make up a system. Therefore, this system is only as good as its weakest link. In this case, that would be the "shockmount" HPX170 lens.
 
since this morning i've done a side by side with the DVX, HVX and HPX. the HPX has a SUBSTANTIAL amount more play in comparison to either of the other cameras.

so regardless of the fact the shock mount is intentional, it's definitely different in it's tolerances from the other cameras it's been no issue with. that fact alone deserves rigorous investigation by panasonic and a user-oriented approach to the potentiality this could be an issue with THIS model. unfortunately what i think we're getting for the most part thus far is generally a denial of the fact there could be an issue in order to calm fears and protect sales.

i understand nobody wants to start a wildfire of quality rumors at panasonic. but i really believe the best way to handle that would be genuine concern for what i feel is a valid point that's been brought to panasonic's attention, and some assurances that there will be every effort to make it right if it turns out to need attention AFTER TESTING before simply dismissing it under the banner of a 'lighter, smaller' or 'same as the rest' PR statement.

whether or not it's a major issue may be up in air until there can be more information from users and panasonic (assuming they will move in the direction of the previous comment), but whether or not it's got more play isn't debatable at this point.
 
I said:
It is a SHOCKKK MOUNT people.

Not to be disrespectful but...

It's made to absorb SHOCK!
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Yeah. I wonder why Panavision has not adopted the "Shock Mount" technology with their lenses? Or Zeiss or Angenieux or Arri or Fujinon or Canon or Schneider or Nikon. They must not get it.
 
davetronic said:
since this morning i've done a side by side with the DVX, HVX and HPX. the HPX has a SUBSTANTIAL amount more play in comparison to either of the other cameras.

a user-oriented approach to the potentiality this could be an issue with THIS model. unfortunately what i think we're getting for the most part thus far is generally a denial of the fact there could be an issue in order to calm fears and protect sales.

before simply dismissing it under the banner of a 'lighter, smaller' or 'same as the rest' PR statement.
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Yes, all we've seen is spin by two people who don't own an HPX170, but make a living from Panasonic products. I've had enough election year spin, I don't need to read more on this forum. My concerns have been dismissed out of hand by a person who has limited technical knowledge, being a salesperson, and another who makes money writing books about Panasonic products.

Consider the source. I remember having a meeting with Sony broadcast sales,
a group that would look right at home at a used car lot. I was concerned about
dead pixels in the then new CCD cameras. The response I got was, "no other clients have complained about this". I then produced letters from every rental
house in the SF Bay Area. Their response was, "well, nobody in Europe has complained about this". Not too long afterwards, Sony built a pixel masking circuit into their CCD blocks. I'm sure it wasn't due to any product problems.

Been there, done that. I have no time for Panasonic fan boys or shills.
 
then hey, instead of creating a further firestorm Dino, just take back the camera. And stick with your 2/3 inch cams.
 
The point is the HPX produces AMAZING images. and when used with a rail system and support it's suburb. Just hooked my Brevis up to it.
 
I, FIlmmaker,
I saw on another post and here that yours is not doing the wiggle at all. Have you grabbed it like the person did in the vimeo video and give it a similiar tug?

I find it very wierd that there are some that have the wiggle and some that do not.

If it is truly a FEATURE (shock-mount) of the camera you would think that people with a non-wiggle HPX would be upset and demand to have a proper wiggle one.
 
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Well, mine is fairly steady. Yes, it does have a small bit of wiggle, but it feels like it's meant to absorb shock; it doesn't at all feel poorly designed, In my opinion.

now the 150, there's ALOT of wiggle on that. I tried it out in the shop today.
Definitely more than the 170.

But that's besides the point.

If you're not constantly TRYING to produce this wiggle, than you won't notice it.

Simple as that.
 
Cool, thanks for your quick reply.

I want to think mine is as steady as it should be, I want it to be the awesome camera I have waited to buy for my adapter use. But like a lot of others this has me worried, down the road too.

I was just under the impression that yours and others had NO play.

Thanks for the clarification.


REALLY looking forward to Monday when Jan hears back from Osaka.
 
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The problem here is that everyone saw that video and now the whole forum's up in arms about it...they're all sitting around grabbing there lenses and pushing and pulling them, trying to produce wiggle.
 
hey, FILMGUY, even if there's a little play, WHO CARES!?

The image is incredible on this cam. Much better than i expected. The clarity of the image and the low noise is really a huge improvement. and three stops more sensitive.

SO good for adapter use. Looks GREAT with my Brevis.
 
I posted the video to help figure out a solution, most of us didn't know about this shock mount. I'm glad Jan cleared up why it's there.

I, Filmmaker: Where did it say that it was a three stop increase in sensitivity?
 
Checked out an HPX today at Abelcine in NY, and their floor model HPX didn't exhibit any unusual play (lateral or vertical). I asked the salesman, Matt, about the issue and he said that he hasn't heard anything about it as of yet... I did notice that the build quality seemed a little "iffy" compared to the HVX. The body (especially along the top) seemed a little "hollow". Not sure if I'd want to drop this cam, but the images look awesome!
 
I think what most users are looking for is re-assurance that dust or more movement later on will not be an issue. Or, if it will become a problem, Panasonic will fully cover repairs to fix anything that may come along with the side to side play in the lens. Just saying it wont be a problem doesn't seem to do it for most people. We want a full explanation on what this movement is actually there for other than, "it's a shock mount." I don't blame people for feeling concerned about this, $5200 is not a small chunk of change.

I just think it's hard to swallow the idea that the lens is meant to move this much. Many users, including me, have never seen side to side movement like this on any other camera before.

Personally, it feels cheap, and I want to be 100% insured that it's not, however that may be.

If the movement really is meant to be there, then there should be no problem in giving a detailed explanation why. Also, why do some HPX's seem to have more play than others? If this shock mount is a tech feature, shouldn't it be pretty uniform across the board?

I don't want to come off as bashing the camera, I love it. But, as a concerned consumer, I just want re-assurance, and I think most everyone else would agree. Call me stupid or ignorant, I just want to make sure that my $5200 was spent on a solid camera.
 
i just tested mine. my lateral play is near if not the same as the vimeo video posted. BUT i tested it on my zacuto rails with both a friction wheel on the stock focus ring and a brevis and indifocus and there was no noticeable wiggle in the lens or the image.

i dont see - as of first test, why quality and properly configured 35mm adapters or follow focus setups would be subject to issues from the scenario
 
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When I made the vimeo video I used a light to medium force to move the lens from side to side. It didn't take much to get movement out of it. Aside from that, I don't think it will affect any of my shooting at all.
 
This wiggle has been evidenced using an unsafe 35mm adapter settings and now is evident only if you look for it. Isn't it?
The typical 'rubber sensation' of the shock mount is evident evident when you move the lens, isn't it?
The lens twiggles but is firmly tightned fo the body of the camera, isn't it?

So, sincerely, I don't understand all this alarm

Gary
 
CW-35 said:
Jan Crittenden, do you think there is going to be a dust issue with this vulnerable area of the camera?

Jan Crittenden, does the 5 year limited Panasonic warranty cover dust inside the lens ?

Thank you.
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i would LOVE for this to get answered. i purchased my 170 today and am now terribly worried.

EDIT: i wish scarlet would hurry things up :D

EDIT 2: i couldn't sleep so i braved the two flights of stairs to where i keep my hvx200. i wiggled the hell out that thing. absolutely no play. steady as a rock. i guess when my 170 gets here next week i'll have to wiggle it. i just hope my mom doesn't walk in on me wiggling my 170... (:
 
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Originally Posted by CW-35
Jan Crittenden, do you think there is going to be a dust issue with this vulnerable area of the camera? does the 5 year limited Panasonic warranty cover dust inside the lens ?
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There should be no issue with dust inside the lens as there is no way that the dust can get in, and so yes it would be covered. While it looks like there might be, there is not. It is the same sort of rubber grommeting in there that there is in the other cameras. there hasn't been an issue there, there won't be one here. Now dust in the external controls like the focus ring or the zoom would not be, but inside the camera yes.

Best,

Jan
 
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