Press Release: HMC150, "the new DVX"

Eventually, we will probably see modular cameras again, where the recording "deck" (although it will record to solid state media) is a separate unit that attaches to the camera head. This is going to become very feasible soon, because the recording devices will be very small. Technology is moving ahead at a furious pace. We are going to see many more things we have yet to imagine.
 
If you stop and think about it, a very plausible reason why Panasonic hasn't even given us a ballpark figure on pricing of the HMC150, could be that it will be considerably lower than the price of an HVX, and announcing that would likely impact the current sales volume for HVXs. I hope they do give us a ballpark figure at NAB, but it wouldn't surprise me if they don't.
 
Tzedekh said:
One feature the HMC150 will have that the HVX doesn't is HDMI. Most won't use it to record directly to a laptop (or, maybe by then, a CineForm direct-to-disk recorder!), but to a significant minority, HDMI could be extremely useful.
Click to expand...

Convergent design is working on some stuff like that I think.
 
Robert M Wright said:
If you stop and think about it, a very plausible reason why Panasonic hasn't even given us a ballpark figure on pricing of the HMC150, could be that it will be considerably lower than the price of an HVX, and announcing that would likely impact the current sales volume for HVXs. I hope they do give us a ballpark figure at NAB, but it wouldn't surprise me if they don't.
Click to expand...

Funny you should post that comment, I've been researching the prices and here's what I find...

Another look at prices...

I'm using B & H as a standard to judge were the HMC-150 should be priced. One of the jobs I had to do when I worked at Epson America in Marketing many years ago, was to check what the prices were of the other products in the same class. This defined the limits of what our price should be. So, using the same logic, here's what's out there ...

Sony EX-1 (1/2" CMOS, SxS), $6,449 at B & H

Sony Z7 (1/3" CMOS, HDV, CF), $5,599.95 at B & H, price in cart (coming in April)

JVC HD-110U (1/3" CCD, HDV), $3,999.95 at B & H

Sony V1U (1/4" CMOS, HDV), $3,499 at B & H, price in cart

Canon A1 (1/3" CCD, HDV), $3,295.95 at B & H

Go to Panasonic's web page and we see the HVX-200 (1/3" CCD) sells for $5,995 list, the DVX-100b (1/3" CCD) is $2,995 list, and the MHC-70 (1/4" CCD) is $2,495 list. The prices are lower at B & H.

Panasonic HVX-200 (1/3" CCD, P2) $5,199.95 B & H, 86.7% of list

Panasonic DVX-100b (1/3" CCD, DV SD) $2,399.95 B & H, 80.1% of list

Panasonic HMC-70 (1/4" CCD, SDHD) $2,199.95 B & H, 88.2% of list


Everything I understand about marketing says that the "street price" or in this example, the B & H price, must land close to the V1 $3,499 and the A1 $3,296 (rounded up). Also, it can't be too close in price to the HVX-200 at $5,995 (list); $5,200 (B & H).

Assume that the street (B & H) price will be $3,499. This seems logical, because it matches the Sony's V1 and is close (+$200)to the Canon's A1. A list price of $3,995 would drop to $3,499 at 87.5% of list, but it could be a few hundred higher...

On the Other Hand:

All of this logic could fall apart if companies like Canon, JVC, and Sony, introduce new AVCHD Cameras that have a street price of around $4,000 to $5,000. This would mean that their marketing research showed them that potential buyers were willing to pay around $500 to $1,000 more for AVCHD recording. Then again, maybe buyers aren't willing to pay that much for solid state recording...

JVC'c HD110U sells for about $500 more than the price of the Sony V1U and $700 more than the Canon A1. For the extra cost, you get a shoulder camera and a removable lens. The Sony Z7 seems WAY overpriced for what it offers, but it hasn't been released, so who knows...

The more I think about it, the more I realize that it's not so cut and dry as I had first though... The following all seem possible, but the first seems most likely:

(1) List = $3,999, Street = $3,499 <-- Most Likely (+/- $300)

(2) List = $4,999, Street = $4,500 <-- Could Happen

(3) List = $5,499, Street = $4,999 <-- Highly Unlikely, but not impossible

The part that's hard for me to guess at is: (A) What AVCHD Cameras will the other companies offer around 4Q 2008 --> 2Q 2009? (B) Does Panasonic want to sell a lot of cameras with limited profit from each camera OR do they want to sell less cameras with more profit per camera?

A man with one watch knows what time it is, but a man with two watches is never quite sure.


Bob Diaz


Here are the links to the different prices.

Sony:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/520761-REG/Sony_PMWEX1UC_PMW_EX1_XDCAM_EX_SxS.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/532558-REG/Sony_HVR_Z7U_HVR_Z7U_HDV_Camcorder.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/461818-REG/Sony_HVRV1U_HVR_V1U_HDV_Camcorder.html

Canon:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/447098-REG/Canon_1191B001_XH_A1_3CCD_HDV_Camcorder.html

JVC:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/444424-REG/JVC_GYHD110U_JVC_GYHD110U_Professional_HDV.html

Panasonic:
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webap...toreId=11201&catalogId=13051&catGroupId=14571
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/381410-REG/Panasonic_AG_HVX200_AG_HVX200_3_CCD_HD_Format.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._AGDVX100B_Panasonic_AG_DVX100B_3CCD_24p.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/547680-REG/Panasonic_AG_HMC70U_SHOULDER_MOUNT_3_CHIP.html
 
Nobody has yet released an AVC-HD camera that's in any way comparable to a DVX/XHA1/HD100/Z1/V1/anything. There's simply nothing else to compare it to, so it's all a big unknown.

My bet is $3999 MSRP, $3495 street.
 
Barry, that's the tough part, there is NOTHING to really do an apple to apple comparison to.

No question that Panasonic's Marketing will be doing the marketing research with focus groups to see what value users will put on AVCHD over HDV: $0, $100 $200, $500, ...

My guess is that come NAB, Panasonic won't really commit to a price; that leaves them open to changes in the market.


However, come DV Expo West (November 2008), everything should be in place and it will make for a very interesting Trade Show....


Bob Diaz
 
Barry_Green said:
Nobody has yet released an AVC-HD camera that's in any way comparable to a DVX/XHA1/HD100/Z1/V1/anything. There's simply nothing else to compare it to, so it's all a big unknown. My bet is $3999 MSRP, $3495 street.
Click to expand...

If this is the camera that Panasonic had at the Government Video conference in Washington this past fall, I don't think it will "take" in the pro market since it simply does not have a lot of bells and whistles. Granted in the pro-sumer market it's a winner, has that look of a smaller version DVC60 in the full size version and nice and small in the handheld but as far as featureset and options, it's like Panasonic's consumer line.

What I will say is "WOW" the picture that they were showing of a car show was absolutely astonishing and amazing, but for our applications of broadcast post productions, events, movie, commercials, etc. won't work . . I'll just take a HVX200 . . IN FACT . . at that conference we went for the soul purpose of trying to deciide on a HPX500 for our next (2nd HD) camera and from playing with the one on display we believe our HVX200 has just as good a picture if not even better for some reason and certainly a whole lot more portable, let alone less out of pocket loss when the prices keep dropping and dropping and dropping (like the almost prosumer price of the DVX now)
 
BobDiaz said:
Everything I understand about marketing says that the "street price" or in this example, the B & H price, must land close to the V1 $3,499 and the A1 $3,296 (rounded up). Also, it can't be too close in price to the HVX-200 at $5,995 (list); $5,200 (B & H).

Assume that the street (B & H) price will be $3,499. This seems logical, because it matches the Sony's V1 and is close (+$200)to the Canon's A1. A list price of $3,995 would drop to $3,499 at 87.5% of list, but it could be a few hundred higher...

On the Other Hand:

All of this logic could fall apart if companies like Canon, JVC, and Sony, introduce new AVCHD Cameras that have a street price of around $4,000 to $5,000. This would mean that their marketing research showed them that potential buyers were willing to pay around $500 to $1,000 more for AVCHD recording. Then again, maybe buyers aren't willing to pay that much for solid state recording...

JVC'c HD110U sells for about $500 more than the price of the Sony V1U and $700 more than the Canon A1. For the extra cost, you get a shoulder camera and a removable lens. The Sony Z7 seems WAY overpriced for what it offers, but it hasn't been released, so who knows...

The more I think about it, the more I realize that it's not so cut and dry as I had first though... The following all seem possible, but the first seems most likely:

(1) List = $3,999, Street = $3,499 <-- Most Likely (+/- $300)

(2) List = $4,999, Street = $4,500 <-- Could Happen

(3) List = $5,499, Street = $4,999 <-- Highly Unlikely, but not impossible

The part that's hard for me to guess at is: (A) What AVCHD Cameras will the other companies offer around 4Q 2008 --> 2Q 2009? (B) Does Panasonic want to sell a lot of cameras with limited profit from each camera OR do they want to sell less cameras with more profit per camera?

A man with one watch knows what time it is, but a man with two watches is never quite sure.
Click to expand...

I agree Bob, $3,499 -- street sounds like the sweet spot for the HMC (of course I'll gladly accept one for free 'wink' 'wink' from Panasonic). The HMC at $4,500+ is too much. I am only one person, and can't speak for everyone here, but , if it is $4,500+ -- street then personally I would hold on to my current cameras and wait for:

(1) Announcements from Canon and Sony on what they plan to offer in a pro AVC-HD cam.

(2) To see whatever Scarlet ends up being.

(3) Wait for an HVX upgrade (or) if that doesn't happen, wait til I can save up for the HVX and a 32 or 64 GB card.

(4) Wait for the HMC-150 to come down a good deal. This would probably take a year or two.

I think pricing that close to the HVX would be a major mistake. Even if the HMC is really close to the HVX in overall image quality (let's hope so), I still think the HVX has too many features that would make many current DVX and HDV cam users just go for an HVX. Especially if there is an upgraded version on the horizon. As you mentioned the Sony Z7U, I think the same applies here with the Panasonic cams. When I saw the price of the Z7U compared to the EX-1 I thought "why would anyone in their right mind pick the Z7U over the EX-1 at that price?" Yes you have to buy the expensive SxS memory, but if you've got $6,000 to spend and want HDV, why not just get 2 A1's for a little more or save some cash?

If Canon and Sony sit on their bums and don't release any tapeless or AVC-HD cameras then I could see the price of the HMC staying a little higher for a while longer. I highly doubt that will happen though. Also, the Cineform flash memory recorder, if it comes out, would be another way to go for HDV owners, as well as someone with an HMC-150.
 
Barry_Green said:
That's not this camera. You're probably talking about the little HSC1U palmcorder. This one looks like an HVX200.
Click to expand...

Awwww. Is there a picture of it somewhere? The one I saw in Washington DC looked just like a smaller version of the DVC60 in fact I thought that's what it was at first but then the product manager advised me otherwise and then showed me the handheld version and as I say it was this AC??? whatever format and it was an absolute amazing picture but no 24p :o(
 
BobDiaz said:
The Sony Z7 seems WAY overpriced for what it offers, but it hasn't been released, so who knows...
Click to expand...

The Z7 has been released. When it was announced, it sure looked overpriced to me, but the performance of those 1/3" CMOS chips is downright stunning. In low light, the Z7 pretty much blows away the Z1 (or any other 1/3" CCD HD camera). Personally, I don't have any interest in removable lenses, but that does also help justify the price tag.

Since the Z7 includes a CF recorder with the camera (along with the ability to change lenses, which the HMC150 obviously will not have), the HMC150 would almost have to offer pretty surprising performance (including considerably better imagers than the HVX, for sure) to justify a street price near $5k.
 
found some pics
looks like it's a single slot SDcard and has F1~F8 dials
1206514737.jpg

1206514766.jpg


couldn't find the price for it,
but it said the pric for the AG-HMC70 is going to be about $2500.
maybe someone can come up with a good guess after know the price for HMC70??
 
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Interesting... The scene file dial goes to f8...

EDIT- The LCD looks very "DVX"- so no EX 16/9 goodness here...
 
It is so beautifull!!! i am in love.... hoping for 72mm :-)

Anyone want to guess as to weather the DVX Batery will fit???
 
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I'm sure it will be 72mm and use the same DVX/HVX battery.

1206543159.jpg


Do you think this allows the focus ring to switch between focus and iris control?
 
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