Will EX-1 be leaps and bounds better than HVX?
- Thread starter Morpheus_23
- Start date
- Status
Excellent, make sure you get the images up soon. I was one of (maybe the first?) OWNER of an XH A1 on this board and no burns at all.
Kevin Lee
Veteran
HEHE I have had some door to door salesmen drop more intelligent lines than that. All credibility goes out the window after that statement. Red lights need to flash in your head in reguards to sony kick backs. Check the marketplace, I have posted some ocean front property in Arizona. A great deal!
Morpheus_23
Active member
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
I am not here to spread the fire, but that statement made have its own truth and merit.
E.g.
I hope FCS users take good care of your G4 powerbook because none of the new Apple Intel Mac offers any pcmcia slot nor do I think Apple is going to go backwards and offer pcmcia slot to their future laptop.
If you were to go with a Dell Laptop, their XPS line and Vostros line dont have pcmcia slot at all.
There is only 2 models out of 6 of their latitude D830 that have a pcmcia slot. The latitude is more of a business laptop then a "creative" laptop.
There is only 1 model of their precision (workstation) laptop that has a pcmcia slot, and that is the mid model.
If you want 256meg dedicated gpu with pcmcia, your ONLY 2 choices are the latitude D830 or the precision M4300. None of the dedicated 512meg dedicated GPU has a pcmcia slot.
Yes, you can use an adapter ...etc, but that is not the point of the argument. In that case, I can use an "add on adapter" to get full res HD-SDI out of the EX at 4:2:2 UNCOMPRESSED.
I am sure this is also the trend for the other laptop manufacturers.
Anyways, personally, I think a CF card tech is the way to go. It has been in the industry for so long and still going on strong. With the RED ONE using CF, and most probably, the mini RED will also be using CF, the only reason not to use cheaper open standard CF is for profitability reasons (although surprisingly Sony uses CF on one of their newer hdv cam).
E.g.
I hope FCS users take good care of your G4 powerbook because none of the new Apple Intel Mac offers any pcmcia slot nor do I think Apple is going to go backwards and offer pcmcia slot to their future laptop.
If you were to go with a Dell Laptop, their XPS line and Vostros line dont have pcmcia slot at all.
There is only 2 models out of 6 of their latitude D830 that have a pcmcia slot. The latitude is more of a business laptop then a "creative" laptop.
There is only 1 model of their precision (workstation) laptop that has a pcmcia slot, and that is the mid model.
If you want 256meg dedicated gpu with pcmcia, your ONLY 2 choices are the latitude D830 or the precision M4300. None of the dedicated 512meg dedicated GPU has a pcmcia slot.
Yes, you can use an adapter ...etc, but that is not the point of the argument. In that case, I can use an "add on adapter" to get full res HD-SDI out of the EX at 4:2:2 UNCOMPRESSED.
I am sure this is also the trend for the other laptop manufacturers.
Anyways, personally, I think a CF card tech is the way to go. It has been in the industry for so long and still going on strong. With the RED ONE using CF, and most probably, the mini RED will also be using CF, the only reason not to use cheaper open standard CF is for profitability reasons (although surprisingly Sony uses CF on one of their newer hdv cam).
C'mon, it's absurd to compare a $135 PCMCIA to ExpressCard adapter to a $3000 HD-SDI laptop "adapter". The reality is that the card form factor is a minor inconvenience. For a desktop workstation, both cards will need some kind of adapter if you don't want to transfer with the camera. Those statements about P2 are plain marketing disinformation.
I also have the feeling that whatever add-ons or compromises you need in order to edit the EX footage in NLEs which currently don't support the format will be called a "minor inconvenience" or something similar. Which I'm sure it is, more or less, but then, so is a PCMCIA/Express adapter.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Other than the too stiff cable on the Duel adapter, I kind of like it, it's actually quicker to use than the slot with the release button on my PowerBook.
Dan
Dan
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
You got to shake that feeling off 
rogar-Happy(DBG): This is the workflow for XDCAM EX with Final cut studio (with the new update {link above}). It is just like P2, native editing.
http://www.apple.com/support/releasenotes/en/Final_Cut_Pro_6.0_rn/
"Working with XDCAM EX Footage
Once you ingest your XDCAM EX footage to QuickTime media files on your scratch disk, you can simply choose the XDCAM EX Easy Setup that corresponds to your footage and edit as you would with any other native format in Final Cut Pro.
Rendering and conforming XDCAM EX media works in the same way as HDV and XDCAM HD rendering and conforming."
PCMCIA is fading into the sunset. Express Card is the new dawn.
rogar-Happy(DBG): This is the workflow for XDCAM EX with Final cut studio (with the new update {link above}). It is just like P2, native editing. http://www.apple.com/support/releasenotes/en/Final_Cut_Pro_6.0_rn/
"Working with XDCAM EX Footage
Once you ingest your XDCAM EX footage to QuickTime media files on your scratch disk, you can simply choose the XDCAM EX Easy Setup that corresponds to your footage and edit as you would with any other native format in Final Cut Pro.
Rendering and conforming XDCAM EX media works in the same way as HDV and XDCAM HD rendering and conforming."
PCMCIA is fading into the sunset. Express Card is the new dawn.
Read what I posted again. There's much more out there than FCS2.
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
It wont surprise me in the very near future, all the popular NLEs will eventually support native XDCAM EX editing. One thing for sure (a concrete fact), the computer industry wont be going back to pcmcia. Even the governing body of pcmcia is stating the fact of express card being more superior and being the replacement for pcmcia.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Sure, computers are going forward with ExpressCard, and they'll stick with it until whatever replaces ExpressCard comes along.
But what does that have to do with us?
But what does that have to do with us?
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
Barry,
We were commenting on the quotation below. The guy was simply commenting that pcmcia is aging and it is going away, while express slots are newer and has better specs than pcmcia. It was unfortunately was taken way out of context in the earlier discussion.
"B&H: How would you compare the XDCAM SxS PRO memory cards to the Panasonic P2 technology?
P2 was built on outdated technology before the cameras even came out on the market, but there wasn’t a viable alternative at the time. Today, P2 is really showing its age and it’s only going to fall further behind. SxS cards, on the other hand, offer tremendous performance improvements."
We were commenting on the quotation below. The guy was simply commenting that pcmcia is aging and it is going away, while express slots are newer and has better specs than pcmcia. It was unfortunately was taken way out of context in the earlier discussion.
"B&H: How would you compare the XDCAM SxS PRO memory cards to the Panasonic P2 technology?
P2 was built on outdated technology before the cameras even came out on the market, but there wasn’t a viable alternative at the time. Today, P2 is really showing its age and it’s only going to fall further behind. SxS cards, on the other hand, offer tremendous performance improvements."
Dx-- you seem oddly preoccupied with the PCMCIA standard. Other than the need for an adapter, how do see P2 being held back? I don't really see *any* issue with P2 other than the adapter, which seems pretty trivial. If anything, I'd give P2 points for being more widely adopted and proven in the field. It's likely that SxS will prove to be equally reliable, but functionally, both cards are speced to do the job.
The only people taking things out of context are the ones making and supporting this misinformation about P2. I was at Sony's EX1 presentation and they wrongly claimed that the underlying technology behind P2 was obsolete--when in reality--the only issue is whether the card will plug directly into a laptop without an adapter.
The only people taking things out of context are the ones making and supporting this misinformation about P2. I was at Sony's EX1 presentation and they wrongly claimed that the underlying technology behind P2 was obsolete--when in reality--the only issue is whether the card will plug directly into a laptop without an adapter.
Last edited:
Barry_Green
Moderator
DX, I'm talking specifically about that, yes. When taken *in context* that statement is misleading marketing hyperbole that has nothing to do with us (the video industry). To claim that P2 is "falling behind" when in actuality it's currently capturing 80% of broadcast sales is just ridiculous, preposterous posturing.
Whether PCMCIA continues in notebook computers is of little relevance. Convenience, yes, but not relevance. Is there any PCMCIA slot in any Mac desktop? Any Windows desktop? No, of course not, yet it matters not at all; a PCI->PCMCIA adapter is $75, and an ExpressCard->PCMCIA adapter is $69.
Look, let's put it this way: has there ever been a computer where you could just directly put your DV tape in? No, you always needed an adapter, and that adapter was called a "deck" and it cost $4,000. Did that stop DV?
Has there ever been a computer where you could directly put your XDCAM disc in it? Of course not, you needed an adapter, and that adapter was also called a "deck" and it was $10,000 to $20,000. Now they're introducing a newer, $3,000 adapter, a non-deck computer disc reader.
Has there ever been a computer where you could directly put a P2/PCMCIA card in? Why, yes there has -- basically every laptop made up until the Macbook Pro, in fact. What a great convenience, you don't need an adapter. And something like 80% of the laptops on the market still offer that slot.
But if it goes away, so what? We'll be back to needing an adapter. Except the adapter doesn't cost $3,000 to $20,000. It costs $69, from Addonics. Or $119, from Duel.
The flavor of tomorrow is ExpressCard for direct laptop computer insertion, sure. But do any desktops come with ExpressCard slots? No? So, what does that mean -- is the EX1 paralyzed? You see how silly that line of thinking is? You just use an appropriate adapter. I believe Sony sells a USB adapter for something like $400. And someday in the future when ExpressCard is obsoleted, you'll need such adapters to work with the cards at that time. So? Big deal.
The point is: whether it's PCMCIA or ExpressCard has little to no bearing on video professionals at all. Even if ExpressCard takes over entirely and completely obsoletes PCMCIA in laptop computers, so what? You can always use a $75 PCI->PCMCIA adapter for your desktop, or a $69 ExpressCard->PCMCIA adapter for your laptop. Or use the P2 Gear, P2 Store, or P2 Drive. Or just use your camera -- it's a desktop PCMCIA reader for free.
Furthermore, card capacities are growing to the point where field offloading is becoming less of an issue entirely. The SxS already provides for 45 minutes per card, 90 minutes per load. An HPX500 with 32GB cards has a 120-minute load, or 300 minutes in 720/24pN. That's enough to get through just about any shoot day without ever needing to offload. And capacities will keep growing, and speed will keep increasing. Six months from now the 64GB cards will be out, giving you 10 hours in one "load". Who would ever need to offload to a laptop in the field when they've got 10 hours continuous shooting time?
And if they do need to offload, well, they might just need a $69 adapter.
It's a non-issue.
Whether PCMCIA continues in notebook computers is of little relevance. Convenience, yes, but not relevance. Is there any PCMCIA slot in any Mac desktop? Any Windows desktop? No, of course not, yet it matters not at all; a PCI->PCMCIA adapter is $75, and an ExpressCard->PCMCIA adapter is $69.
Look, let's put it this way: has there ever been a computer where you could just directly put your DV tape in? No, you always needed an adapter, and that adapter was called a "deck" and it cost $4,000. Did that stop DV?
Has there ever been a computer where you could directly put your XDCAM disc in it? Of course not, you needed an adapter, and that adapter was also called a "deck" and it was $10,000 to $20,000. Now they're introducing a newer, $3,000 adapter, a non-deck computer disc reader.
Has there ever been a computer where you could directly put a P2/PCMCIA card in? Why, yes there has -- basically every laptop made up until the Macbook Pro, in fact. What a great convenience, you don't need an adapter. And something like 80% of the laptops on the market still offer that slot.
But if it goes away, so what? We'll be back to needing an adapter. Except the adapter doesn't cost $3,000 to $20,000. It costs $69, from Addonics. Or $119, from Duel.
The flavor of tomorrow is ExpressCard for direct laptop computer insertion, sure. But do any desktops come with ExpressCard slots? No? So, what does that mean -- is the EX1 paralyzed? You see how silly that line of thinking is? You just use an appropriate adapter. I believe Sony sells a USB adapter for something like $400. And someday in the future when ExpressCard is obsoleted, you'll need such adapters to work with the cards at that time. So? Big deal.
The point is: whether it's PCMCIA or ExpressCard has little to no bearing on video professionals at all. Even if ExpressCard takes over entirely and completely obsoletes PCMCIA in laptop computers, so what? You can always use a $75 PCI->PCMCIA adapter for your desktop, or a $69 ExpressCard->PCMCIA adapter for your laptop. Or use the P2 Gear, P2 Store, or P2 Drive. Or just use your camera -- it's a desktop PCMCIA reader for free.
Furthermore, card capacities are growing to the point where field offloading is becoming less of an issue entirely. The SxS already provides for 45 minutes per card, 90 minutes per load. An HPX500 with 32GB cards has a 120-minute load, or 300 minutes in 720/24pN. That's enough to get through just about any shoot day without ever needing to offload. And capacities will keep growing, and speed will keep increasing. Six months from now the 64GB cards will be out, giving you 10 hours in one "load". Who would ever need to offload to a laptop in the field when they've got 10 hours continuous shooting time?
And if they do need to offload, well, they might just need a $69 adapter.
It's a non-issue.
Last edited:
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
Not preoccupied, just read back my original thread http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1103296&postcount=145
Anyways, IMHO we are only 1 cam generation away from the mini red. By that time, we all will be using 35mm nikon or cine lenses and CF cards anyways.
Anyways, IMHO we are only 1 cam generation away from the mini red. By that time, we all will be using 35mm nikon or cine lenses and CF cards anyways.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Not entirely. P2 is spec'd to survive being ejected while being written to, or to survive the power being shut off when being written to, with a maximum potential impact of losing only the last two seconds. Sony claims that if those events happen to an SxS card, all data on the card may be destroyed. All 45 minutes could disappear.
Interesting and definitely worth testing.
Stevet
Veteran
Agreed!
The point is, the adapter issue is a very minor inconvenience, just like current NLE support for XDCAM EX is.
- Status