Is now the time to buy?

Blade Borge

Blade Borge

Well-known member
I want this camera, though it will take everything I have in savings to get it. I wish I had a list of clients first before I commit to such an investment, but to have clients I need a solid camera. Is buying the next step?
 
Not certain what your question is asking.

Without the cam, you can't learn a thing, or demonstrate to clients your capability.

It isn't the easiest cam to learn, but with Barry's books and DVDs and these forums, you might want to get the cam and get ready for the clients.
 
It's called Business Plan. I urge you to create one and then to network with other professionals in your community as one of the tests of its reality. You might seek the help of a professional in creating that plan. It is only through analysis of both concepts and numbers that you can answer that question.

Ned Soltz
 
If you need it, now is the time to buy. If you don't need it, why buy now? There will always be something new coming out, and prices in electronics typically go down, not up.

Wait until you need it, and when you need it buy the best you can get.

If you don't yet have adequate skills, then you definitely need something to learn on. If you've got skills, but don't yet have a pressing need to have your own gear, why get it now? Only you can answer that. But if you do have a pressing need, get the best you can, now, and get to work. As Ned said in another post, he's making enough money now with today's HVX200 that he'll be able to buy a Pocket Red or whatever else comes out when it comes out. Assuming, of course, that the new product will somehow enable you to raise your prices or to land jobs you otherwise couldn't.
 
It's a tricky situation. Technically, I don't need it now because I don't have anybody to shoot for, but if I had a good camera then maybe I would. I like what you said Ned, I'll look into that. Another aspect is that, yeah I am pretty unexperienced when it comes to the HVX, but I want to become as professional as I can be when it comes to getting the right look. I'll keep thinking...
 
yikes! when you use words like "savings" and say things like "dont have anybody to shoot for" - i say RENT for a while.

an hvx isnt just a camera alone. there are p2 cards (or other storage solution) to think about - thats another min of $1500 or so. then what about a tripod? a hard case? microphones? lights? will you need to upgrade your computer system to work adequately? dollars, dollars, dollars...

you wont get into even a basic decent HVX shooting package for less than about $7k
 
I say throw caution to the wind! Let the credit card companys sponsor what you can't afford at an unreasonable rate!

Remember it's only money.
 
Blade Borge said:
but to have clients I need a solid camera.
Click to expand...

Most clients will come to you for your skills and expertise NOT what camera you own!
There are many DP's and camera operators making a living that dont even own a camera. Increase your skills by helping out on other projects or by renting equipment.
 
I had just written a really long winded post which I accidentally erased...:badputer:

fortunately ozduc said it better...and more concisely...

I guess I don't really believe in the "if I buy it, they will come" mentality...although I fall for it a lot...

RJS
 
guerrillaindie said:
I say throw caution to the wind! Let the credit card companys sponsor what you can't afford at an unreasonable rate!

Remember it's only money.
Click to expand...

I agree, take a chance, if it doesn't pay off then just kill yourself

joking of course, but I do agree, if you want to get there you can, but the amount of time it takes you to get there depend on the risks you take. Some can pay off and take you there quicker, others can delay you.

Great camera though
 
Blade Borge said:
Well, I have a little dinky DV camera. You guys make some good points.
Click to expand...

How dinky?
And more importantly - how comfortable are you with shooting and editing?

If you feel you need more experience before searching out clients - then I would highly suggest waiting, and in the meantime shoot and edit as much as you can. Keep working on projects - the basics of shooting can be learned with any camera, no matter how dinky. And editing is editing - the format of the footage doens't really matter in terms of learning the basics of the craft.

Then, once you feel comfortable - do what you can to try to get some work, and rent a camera if need be. Once you see that you can generate work and deliver a product that makes a client happy THEN think about investing that kind of money into a new camera.

That's just my 2 cents.
Like Barry said - the best time to buy is when you need to.
If you don't need to - don't.
But if you need to buy - don't bother stressing over what the 'next big thing' might be, because there will ALWAYS be a next big thing. If you plan things correctly, that should be a nonissue anyhow, because with consistent work you should be able to pay off the cost of something like an HVX within a couple of months at the latest.

Take my situation for example - I've worked on freelance projects for the past 6 years or so.
I bought a GL1 back in 1999 or 2000 (don't remember exactly). I worked that camera into the ground.
It died on me back in 2003 or so. From that point on, I borrowed or rented anytime I needed a camera (which was somewhat often).
I never bought because I hadn't seen a camera that would do everything I would need to justify my buying it.
I sometimes needed BetaSP, I sometimes needed HD, I sometimes needed 24P progressive, etc etc.
BUT - even without a camera I made a living for years. THEN the HVX came out, and it fit most of my needs...enough to justify my buying one.
But even then, I didn't buy it right away because I didn't have a solid plan by which to pay for it.
I waited until the beginning of this year, when I signed a contract with a client that I knew would require enough shooting to where it made more financial sense to buy the camera than it did to rent it.

My point is - I was able to make a living without a problem without owning a camera.
Would it have been nice to have one in all that time? Of course.
But would it have been nice enough to go into debt for?
That's a quesiton you need to decide for yourself.
Personally - I would only go into debt if I had a solid plan to get out of it.
Buying gear without a plan to generate income off of it is really no different that just taking out a 5-7K loan and saying "I'll figure it out later."
But different people have different tolerances for risk. Mine seems to be rather low when it comes to finances.
It all depends on your particular situation.

Then again - I'm writing all this assuming you want the camera for business purposes (seeing as you mentioned clients). If you're interested in building a solid and successful business - I would make sure you have a solid plan ahead of you of how you plan on making back the money of your investment. On the other hand, if you just want an HVX to shoot your own projects with no plans of making a living off of it...then go ahead and buy it when you can afford to.
:)
 
Last edited:
Luis Caffesse said:
How dinky?
And more importantly - how comfortable are you with shooting and editing?
...
Take my situation for example - I've worked on freelance projects for the past 6 years or so.
I bought a GL1 back in 1999 or 2000 (don't remember exactly). I worked that camera into the ground.
It died on me back in 2003 or so. From that point on, I borrowed or rented anytime I needed a camera (which was somewhat often).
Click to expand...

The thing is, you had the GL1 in the beginning. Which is already a quite decent camera. You didnt have a crappy camera. Once you got started it might be easy to rent and go on. But I think at the beginning you need something that - like you said- you can work into the ground. Can you do that by renting a camera? Might be really expensive.

Did you get your GL1 before you "started"? And what is your background?

If you dont have any formal education it is somehow quite difficult to start. You need to show something that looks good. And for that you need a quite decent camera. If you rent a camera it is a pain in the ass, because you have no time to really work with it. You already have to know it. Well, sure you can accomplish it, but the learning curve will also be really slow.

@Topic starter:
If you really have a solid plan, and dont care for the money, you should probably go for it. But like others said before, it is not just the camera. There are many other things that will come along the stony road.
 
Well that's the thing, I just graduated with a film degree. I study cinematography all the time, and I volunteer sometimes with this small production company (who, just so happen to use the HVX). Right now it seems like buying the HVX is the next into expanding my talents and possiblilites
 
Nomis said:
The thing is, you had the GL1 in the beginning. Which is already a quite decent camera. You didnt have a crappy camera.
Click to expand...

True, but in all honesty looking back, I wish I had never bought it.
I had an old DV camera that I thought wasn't 'pro' enough to cut my teeth on.
At the time I was only doing personal projects. I did exactly 1 paying job on the GL1, everything past that I borrowed or rented. Looking back I could have done everything I did without having laid out the $2200 the GL1 cost at the time.

But in the end it's totally a personal preference, and obviously my advice is colored by my experiences.

Once you got started it might be easy to rent and go on. But I think at the beginning you need something that - like you said- you can work into the ground. Can you do that by renting a camera? Might be really expensive.
Click to expand...

I completely agree that in the beginning you need a camera you have ready access to, in order to continually shoot and edit and learn. All I was suggesting is that the camera you learn on needn't be anything fancy. You can learn by using any camera that can get an image, and with any piece of software that can cut your video.
The basics are all the same - regardless of the resolution.

Did you get your GL1 before you "started"? And what is your background?
Click to expand...

Yes, I got it before I started working as a freelancer.
Not sure what you want to know about my background - but I went to college and got degrees in Psych and Philosophy - meanwhile I spent as much time in the film school as possible. I shot with anything I coudl get my hands on since I can remember. I always knew what I wanted to do (shoot and edit for a living) - but never went to school for it because I couldn't afford any filmschool that I wanted to go to.

As far as your points to renting a camera - maybe I should have clarified.
I meant that if he's looking to start a business he should consider renting for his first few paying jobs. Yes, renting can be expensive, but if its for a job you are getting paid for then it should be included in the budget. The client is paying for the camera rental - not you. I didn't mean to suggest that he should rent a camera to shoot personal projects on, or just to practice with.
 
Blade Borge said:
Well that's the thing, I just graduated with a film degree. I study cinematography all the time, and I volunteer sometimes with this small production company (who, just so happen to use the HVX). Right now it seems like buying the HVX is the next into expanding my talents and possiblilites
Click to expand...

Well that changes alot of things. I thought you were just starting out, which I guess you are in a sense - but you aren't new to cameras necessarily. If you know what you're doing behind a camera - then yes, I would say you probably need to have something to work with that is a bit more substantial than a 'dinky' DV camera.

Any chance of using the production company's HVX?
Or borrowing a camera from anyone else you know in the meantime?

If not then I would say to either come up with a decent plan with which to pay it off....or buy the camera with money that you have no intention of getting back. Basically - don't go into debt, and don't spend money you can't live without.

But again - just my 2 cents.
 
Well the production company wants me to play with the HVX a little, but I doubt they'd let me make a movie or money off of it...sad. Thanks for all your advice Luis and everybody else. I'll keep weighing my options.
 
Just take it out for "play" and shoot some stock footage. Then save your royalty money. :)
If you're worried about the learning curve on a particular camera, HVX or otherwise, you can usually add a day onto your rental for pretty cheap and that time will pay for itself.
 
i totally disagree with the whole idea that renting for personal use is too expensive.

$250 for a weekend is one hell of a cheap price to pay to get yourself to a point where you dont screw up on a paying gig. the only thing to consider is that you'll probably want to clear your schedule for that weekend to be sure you'll get the most of your rental time...

back in my early days in the early 1990's i would rent a uvw/bvw betacam for a weekend or so a month and just go out and shoot stuff to make sure i had my head around the camera.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top