RED L.A. photos/what have you's

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This was the TRUE demonstration of Digital Cinema in my opinion.

The stuff look friggin' incredible. It was 35mm with no grain. Didn't feel electronic..... It felt like the next evolution of cinema imaging.

Most definitely kick ass.
 
The closeup of one of the girls looked crystal clear. However, when the camera moved into wider shots, the subjects seemed a little soft. I don't know if this is because the subjects were on the edge of the focus, or lighting issues, or whatever. I get the feeling that the Red team was trying to emphasize the DOF drop off in the background, but I'm wondering if by doing this, they didn't get the sharpest focus on the two women.
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I felt the same way, but the guy doing the presentation talked about DOF a lot and my guess is that they wanted to show that you could have a super short focused area while keeping focus on a subject that because of definition appeared cristal clear with a ton of detail. I think that what made if feel weird is that the shot where the "milk girl" comes out from inside the bus was not about the girl wrenching away below, but about her that popping her head out of the window and coming down to help or whatever. If the guys were up for the challenge of keeping focus on her as she moved through the shot it would have made much more sense. However they probably skipped that because of the difficulty of it and instead they stayed with ::DANG! just burnt my dinner:: the girl that wasn't moving.

By the way, the screen was 30ft. not the 60 footer used on previous screenings. I wish at the end of the presentation they would have blown it up to 60ft projection and only shown the 30ft they had of screen just to see how deep the detail goes.


Sorry about the parking ticket! I parked behind the gas station accross the street and my meter ran out too but got lucky!
 
_MR_ said:
Hey, look at little ol' New Zealand on that map all painted red :)
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Hey there is at least one order from Argentina too! Hope they r not buying their storage there cause THAT is what expensive really is
 
All I can say is that I brought my cinematographer who is a hardcore film guy and his main comment was "It is way too clean and their lenses are too sharp. I think it would look better with an old Cooke that's seen a bit of wear." Too clean, too sharp. Not bad.

He clarified saying "With the three chip cameras the lenses have to be super sharp to minimize the separation issues as the light is split. All of this goes away with a single chip camera [like red] so the supersharp lenses can actually work against you." I'm not sure what he's saying, but it is still positive.

Since we had been planning to shoot film until Red came along I asked him if he'd rather shoot film or Red. He said, "If you had it today, I'd borrow it tomorrow. Hell yeah, we have to use this, the picture looks great and we'll save so much money. Forever, with digital projects you push them stylized because they couldn't look like film--but with this it is no longer the case--you can shoot a nice, warm, romatic comedy without apology."

There you go. One film guy converted--a couple thousand more to go!
 
One more thing.

The Redcode raw footage at the end. It really wasn't shown back to back (actually I'd like to see it truely A/B'd like you can in something like compressor with a line in the middle hiding and revealing)

...But, to my eyes it did look visually flatter to me. Was it just me? There was a few minutes, between the normal footage and the Redcode footage with no set up at all (like, "This is Raw... This is Redcode Raw... Any Questions?" )

When it first came up, I thought it looked flatter, then it was repeated and it looked identical. I thought that was showing uncomressed and compressed and I thought "wow, they are identical--but a bit flatter than I remembered" but then Ted said they showed the Redcode Raw twice so maybe it was really flatter than the raw stuff that was shown earlier.

Is it me? Everything else looked jawdropping and spectacular and maybe I'm remembering this different as, with the discussion, I was preparing myself to go Redcode Raw--so I saw what I was expecting to see. Or, maybe the main footage had color correction and the raw didn't.

Is it just me?

Thom
 
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My DP said that the REDCODE looked just "a little" less impressive, but that he wasn't told it was REDCODE until after viewing it, so he wasn't sure.
 
For now, it's amazing.

I have to keep reminding myself that we are seeing earlier test footage with this camera than we've ever seen and it will only get better.

Also, if what I remember is true, this test footage was actually "extra compressed" compared to what we will get from the camera and what I saw still looked great--and looked like it may richen up with color adjustments, it just looked different to my eyes than the earlier footage.

Once we get closer to delivery, I'm sure we'll get Redcode vs Raw demos to "see it like it is" with clean A/Bs indoor, outdoor, greenscreen, etc so we can start planning our workflows accordingly and determine our tolerance for "acceptable loss" vs "pursuit of perfection".

Thom
 
From my POV, I stare at REDCODE RAW images every day. Unless you take both the uncompressed and the compressed images into Photoshop and flip-flop between them and tweak the hell out of the levels, it's bloody hard to tell them apart.

Graeme
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
From my POV, I stare at REDCODE RAW images every day. Unless you take both the uncompressed and the compressed images into Photoshop and flip-flop between them and tweak the hell out of the levels, it's bloody hard to tell them apart.

Graeme
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That's what I figured. People don't realize how awesome compression is these days. I often compress color-corrected 1GB HVX footage, which is already impressively compressed, down to 150MBs with Windows Media and can barely tell the difference on a high-end monitor.

People who are like "You are talking about 4K post on a high-end PC!!!??" don't realize the pace of technology. That's why I love to see posts like this from RED and guys like David over at Cineform. It shocks the old-school guys!
 
My friend and I came away from the experience in awe. Like everyone has said before... you gotta see it on the big screen to absorb how incredible the RED 4k footage really is. Seeing it in the theatre was insaaaaane. The free soda and caramel popcorn was also nice. thanks Jim and company.
 
Also, Frankie, great girl that she is, is a pain to focus, and to keep critical back focus and 3-plane alignment. If things are a touch soft, that's what I'd say is reason #1, and obviously, that won't be the case in camera.

#2 is NO Sharpening of any kind WHAT-SO-EVER. None. At all. Zip.

#3 bayer CFA demosaicing algorithm choice. I like "smooth as dark chocolate - a little bite, but it melts nicely". That's my aesthetic. I don't like sharpened, I don't like edgy, and I despise ringing artifacts of any kind. Rant over - so what you're seeing in terms of per-pixel sharpness is my idea of "nice". Don't like it - it's raw, so extract out the bayer pattern and write your own. I'll probably (don't quote me on this) give you a couple of choices of demosaic algorithm though.

If you want to see what a different aesthetic can look like, take the 4k stills into photoshop and muck around with unsharp mask or other favourite sharpening tool. One of these days I might just write a sharpening tool I actually can stand to look at :-)

Graeme
 
ZaneIsNumber1 said:
What's the Red Map? My guess is the highlighted countries have reservations?
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Hmm, looks like Japan doesn't have any reservations... since I'm going to Japan next year I may have to seriously look at taking the camera with me instead of leaving it in Australia to work itself out of indentured servitude :) Guess it depends on how many people decide to rent it here vs Japan, but in Japan I'd have the market truly cornered if it was the only one in country!
 
That's really good to hear, Graeme, and honestly I have zero interest in figuring out a 4K Raw workflow so we are counting on you to deliver Redcode raw that is IMPOSSIBLE to tell apart!

But in all seriousness, color corrected together (and not tweaking the hell out of the levels) I doubt you'd be able to tell them apart. And even if there is a subtle difference who is ever going to see it as the entire feature will be Redcoded?

Keep up the good work, Graeme--it's too bad you missed the gasps in the audience when the footage was rolling--everyone was completely awestruck.

Thom

Wait. Free Soda and Carmel popcorn?!! I missed that!
 
Ted phoned me immediately after and told me the story! But great to hear it from you Thom! There's still a fair bit of work to do on REDCODE and my hope is to improve it from what you've seen today.

Graeme
 
I believe the "difference" in the REDCODE image came from the fact that the colors were ever so slightly off from the other shots. It's not that it was changed by the compression, just the setup. A little curves or levels work would make it match the other shots perfectly, in my opinion.

I had an absolutely amazing time there and it was wonderful to meet everybody that I did. I didn't get a chance to catch up with Jarred or Jim [saw both, almost got their attention, missed them as they went into the 2:30 screening... bugger!] but the whole experience was fantastic.

I need not state how amazing the footage was. I was gasping the entire time.

The thing that excited me the most today was the new/more detailed body and the new cage. Actually seeing the REDFLASH and RED-DRIVE mounted on the new body made a huge difference for me. Also seeing the optical RAW port was fantastic. The EVF is coming along quite nicely as well, it's nice to see some real visible development there. I'm really hoping that those pictures make it online soon... they made the show for me.

I have some stills that I'll post shortly, though most are just of the line and crowd. I didn't bring the HVX per Jarred's recommendation in my thread... and I kept the flash off on my still camera [so anything indoors is blurred beyond comprehension].

Who was it who had Jim sign their R? Seeing that was kind of funny.

Wow, what a fantastic screening. I can't wait to see what's next.

Just teach your actresses how to use their tools... or call me next time for the shoot. :laugh:
 
damn i totaly frogot this was today!!! and the worst part is i drive right by that theatre and saw a huge line out there...
 
That show was great.. I walked in the theater at 1:25 and was amazed that I could find a seat.. it was packed. The footage was amazing, everyone was gidddy. The reverse threaded nuts on the bus wheels were particularly amusing. I'm totally bummed that I missed out on the free soda and popcorn. Anyway... Great job Jim and crew.
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
Also, Frankie, great girl that she is, is a pain to focus, and to keep critical back focus and 3-plane alignment. If things are a touch soft, that's what I'd say is reason #1, and obviously, that won't be the case in camera.

#2 is NO Sharpening of any kind WHAT-SO-EVER. None. At all. Zip.

#3 bayer CFA demosaicing algorithm choice. I like "smooth as dark chocolate - a little bite, but it melts nicely". That's my aesthetic. I don't like sharpened, I don't like edgy, and I despise ringing artifacts of any kind. Rant over - so what you're seeing in terms of per-pixel sharpness is my idea of "nice". Don't like it - it's raw, so extract out the bayer pattern and write your own. I'll probably (don't quote me on this) give you a couple of choices of demosaic algorithm though.

If you want to see what a different aesthetic can look like, take the 4k stills into photoshop and muck around with unsharp mask or other favourite sharpening tool. One of these days I might just write a sharpening tool I actually can stand to look at :-)

Graeme
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Love the passion, Graeme. :)
 
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