What's a newb to do? Follow his heart or follow his wallet?

M

Mavoz

Well-known member
As a long time dvxuser reader who has long explored the virtues of the mighty hvx 200 I walked into a pro video store today with happy smile and serious plans to buy the Hvx200....only to walk out with taileth between my legs........

here's why....

Mr Salesman told me I should buy some Sony HDV creation instead.........


-Salesman told me I'm a hobbyist newbie....and the HVX would be too complicated for me a mere uninitiated lowlife who has never worked a day in the industry...in short I am not worthy. (Well Ok...he said it nicer than that...but I got the vibe!)
- I'm interested in filming doco's...and p2 cards are way too expensive by comparison with shooting HDV on mini dv.
- I'd be better off putting the money into quality mics, lights, tripods etc.
- I'm using Adobe suite...and integration with DVCPRO HD currently requires more expensive add ons.

Mr Salesman is probably very right...Mr Salesman is probably very wise...Mr Salesman no doubt speaketh truth......

I am indeed a newbie lowlife with no experience in the industry who merely wants to:

- explore all the wonderful features of the HVX200 and learn film making craft with this camera..
- explore the merits of variable frame rates and interweave interesting shots through the talking head stuff.
- use p2 because it fits so nicely with my digital upbringing.......
- shoot stuff that looks more film like and less video like
- buy a camera that will last me a long time
- use a mixture of SD and HD until p2 becomes more affordable
- make sure that if I'm gonna spend big money...I may as well do it right

What oh what indeed is a newbie to do? Should ones bank account indeed rule the call of the heart?
 
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I wonder what camera Mr Salesman was selling. Keep that in mind, he may have an ulterior motive (like to sell a product...)

That beeing said, he could also be right. All his statements do have some merit. If you need cheap long-format HD, then the HVX isn't the right answer.

However if you want something very flexible and creative, and are happy starting off in great DV as you build up to HD when you can/have to. Then the HVX is a clear winner.

- Mikko
 
I'd say to follow your heart. The HDV camera are also not in any great demand from clients and producers... but the HVX is clearly making inroads into the higher end productions and it's now on set where as at this time last year, you might have seen a varicam or cinealta in it's place. It will allow you to break into bigger productions... and create more impressive looking video. When you are starting out, you should align yourself with new emerging tech and not something that has its foot in the past like HDV... which is an animal with limited life expectancy. IT's all going to be tapless and the skillset that the HVX has is not approachable by any other HDV cam.


Also as far as the cost of the P2 vs cheap DV tapes. I'd say I've shot about 150 hours of footage with my HVX since getting it in March. Now at 5 bucks a shot, that's 750 which is about 350 less than my 2 4 gig cards cost.... So I'm thinking that by March of Next year, I'll have shor maybe the equivilant costs worth of mini DV tapes or more. The value is also in NEVER having to run out and get those pesky things... and the data workflow is sweet.


Also... until you are ready to buy the P2, the HVX shoots some great looking 24p DV footage.... I'd say to align yourself with the cutting edge and leapfrog all of those people with DV. Jump in and from here on out... don't tell anyone you are a newbie. Just polish your skills and get yourself a sweet looking demo reel.


Besides, I'm sure those Sony cams are sitting on shelves and the HVX are selling themselves.. so that guy is chomping to sell of those cams. Stick to your guns and you'll be happy with the results.
 
Mavoz said:
I am indeed a newbie lowlife with no experience in the industry who merely wants to:

- explore all the wonderful features of the HVX200 and learn film making craft with this camera..
- explore the merits of variable frame rates and interweave interesting shots through the talking head stuff.
- use p2 because it fits so nicely with my digital upbringing.......
- shoot stuff that looks more film like and less video like
- buy a camera that will last me a long time
- use a mixture of SD and HD until p2 becomes more affordable
- make sure that if I'm gonna spend big money...I may as well do it right

What oh what indeed is a newbie to do? Should ones bank account indeed rule the call of the heart?
Click to expand...

As entertaining as you describe your situation, I´m not sure what you want to hear from us.
If you want all of the above things, well than just go the shop and buy a HVX.
If you can´t afford it, save money until you can.
Also buy a laptop and external bus-powered drives, to off-load the P2 cards.
Or, if you got some change left, get the P2 store ;-)
If the price of the P2 still is too high for your budget - well go record DV to tape with the HVX.
 
Hi Mavoz, I underestand your position as mine is similar. I bought the HVX (my first video cam) and I am shooting DV to tape for now. I'm having a blast learning the camera, gathering footage, and planning the shots. I would love to be using P2 right now but it's not in the budget. Of course, if I had a Sony camera I'd be using that now and having a blast as well.

--Gary
 
Ask yourself: What are you gonna shoot, Where are you gonna shoot and who watches it how?

If you are a "newbie" and tight on budget: get the DVX. Best miniDV camera you can get with soooo many options to tweak it will keep you busy at least a year and allows easily for high quality stuff in standard def.

Then look for new stuff again.

If you have to have that HD-format. Well again: What, where for who. If it is for Tv networks that are in SD, forget it. If you shoot for industrial HD-screenings: well.....get the budget to buy a HVX. HDV is no fish nor meat. It has nice teasing features like the cheap tape, but it needs a very powerful PC and care when postproduction is done. It also is not good with moving objects like rivers or such (especially in SONY cameras).

Nobody here will be able to really tell you what to do. I myself still shoot BetaSP and DVX100 and rent the HVX when the client asks for it. But mostly we are still SD here.
 
Mavoz I fall into the same catagory of low-life amateur who just loves the camera. I went ahead and bought mine and haven't regretted it for a nano-second. Yes there is a steep learning curve and its a camera that is not stupid-friendly, but when you throw some 720/60 up on a screen and it looks like you're looking through a window . . . . well, what's not to love. I'm quite amazed at what we can justify spending money on. If a guy spends 40-50 thousand on a sports car (Something with little value other than making one appear cool.) no one questions him. A guy spends 5 to 10 thousand on a camera and there becomes this epic philosophical debate as if there were a need for moral justification. I wouldn't consider any advice a salesman gives you as worthless tits on a bull. You know what you want, go after it.
 
We own a HVX200 and owned a Z1U.

Actually Sony's new 24P HDV V1U camcorder with HDMI is kinda of interesting, especially on a Mac with BlackMagic's new HDMI $249.00 Intensity board.

Depends who your clients are.
 
If you have your heart set on the HVX, go with it. You can shoot all the DV stuff you want, but won't have to "upgrade" and sell off the "old" camera in a year. You'll also have the option of shooting HD anytime you can borrow or rent P2 cards or other storage devices.

You sound passionate enough that I'm SURE you will learn the camera and advance your skills in the HD world quickly.

Never be afraid to jump in over your head. It's the only way you'll get better. At 48 years old and 30 years in Broadcast, I still challenge my knowledge daily.
Just do it! Besides, you have this forum to help you! :)
I wish you well.
 
One thing you have to consider when purchasing any camera is the fact that you will probably end up spending more than twice the price of the camera on all the accessories you will need to be fully equipped to do professional jobs. So with that in mind, after reading your post it seems you aren't at that level. Are you ready to spend $20k+ on equipment to make your doc and learn the art of film making? An alternative would be to do some pre production work on your doc, get all your interview subjects lined up to shoot within a week. Have all your questions sent to them in advance. Then rent the camera, sound and lighting equipment you will need to get the job done right. Go and shoot your interviews and b-roll footage. Even with a 2 week rental you will probably spend about 10% of what it would cost you to buy all the gear. Then you will sit editing for weeks anyway so you wouldn't really need a camera sitting around at that point. Finish your doc and sell it. Now you will have the funds to go and purchae all the pro gear you need.
 
Voices of reason

Voices of reason

ar yes....I knew it...the voices of dvxuser wisdom would speak louder than the cold hard voice of passionless money centric salesmen....

Thank you!


The HVX is indeed the one for me...

With it comes boundless educational opportunities

With it comes the future of the digital tapeless age

With it comes creativity options that extend beyond anything sony hdv

(and with it comes a fair old dent in the coffers....:))


but hey.... I'm yet to regret any of the other 'more expensive' purchases I've made from Canon digital slr's to pro Roland synth's to software such as Photoshop, Adobe vid suite etc

Each one has opened new doors of learning, creativity, production and opportunity...things that would have remained as but a distant dream on the shelves of possibility...things that indeed a sports car investment could never have achieved....

You see it's not all about the wallet...it's about what can be....

ok...might be getting a tad carried away there now...but you get the picture... might as well spend a bit more and get the HVX! Thanks!

(..and besides..after spending all this time on dvxuser.... the thought of buying a Sony HDV somehow fills me with about as much enthusiasm as the thought of sucking on the proverbial dry lemon!)
 
MAVOZ YOU LITTLE ^&%*(. I had no idea your dvx enlightenment was on a scale astronomers use. And there I was . . . preaching to the choir. For your sin of deceiving a fellow dvxuser member I command you crawl to the dwelling of the panasonic oracle of delphi (Barry Green) and chant the hvx owners manual backwards in Latin until three full moons pass.
 
Humble apologies Scrappy..for a moment there I was indeed tempted by the seductions of the sweet talking Salesman and his hidden Sony agendas...but now I shall begin saving for that of which Barry would approve...
 
What about waiting for the nextt incarnation of the Camera?

I hear from a few people that Panasonic is probably coming out with a Rev B of this camera?
I don't know the authenticity of this heresay, so I figured I would ask this forum.
 
Benton said:
What about waiting for the next incarnation of the Camera?

I hear from a few people that Panasonic is probably coming out with a Rev B of this camera?
I don't know the authenticity of this heresay, so I figured I would ask this forum.
Click to expand...
Well I'll certainly keep waiting as I keep storing pennies in the jar..hopefully in time price will drop just a little..and yes...revision b would be a nice bonus...mind u the camera has only been in australia for about 7 months...

...murphy's law dictates that a new model will not come by waiting...but rather around a week after you've just purchased the previous model!
 
Mavoz said:
Well I'll certainly keep waiting as I keep storing pennies in the jar..hopefully in time price will drop just a little..and yes...revision b would be a nice bonus...mind u the camera has only been in australia for about 7 months...

...murphy's law dictates that a new model will not come by waiting...but rather around a week after you've just purchased the previous model!
Click to expand...

Others (far more enlightened than me) have indicated no update until 08.

IMHO, waiting for the "next gen" is generally an excersize in frustration.

Good luck
JohnG
 
And the "next gen" may be as simple as a firmware update.

The idea of an HVX200A or HVX200B comes from the fact that the DVX went through those incarnations. But the DVX didn't have the ability to have downloadable firmware updates, and the HVX does. So it could be that upgrades that would otherwise have necessitated making an HVX200A would instead be available freely, via download, to any HVX200.

Now, that's not to say that there won't someday be another revision; of course there will (or a replacement); time marches on and progress occurs. But all I'm saying is that if anyone's counting on an immediate "200A" upcoming, that may not happen because maybe they can accomplish it through a firmware update rather than having to introduce new hardware.
 
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