Update red.com "Recommended"

Blaine, I'm with you,sounded like a rant..pc,mac,mac,pc; I thought that was a tired old story, use whatever platform works best for your particular task.
Aloha
-A
P.S. I gotta say, the instant RED feedback is awesome.
 
I, personally am offended. I go away for a few hours; a non-crisis erupts and is solved before I even get a chance to be anxious about it. Next time someone send me an invitation, please.

I call first post on the next non-crisis.
 
lpcvideo1 said:
I, personally am offended. I go away for a few hours; a non-crisis erupts and is solved before I even get a chance to be anxious about it. Next time someone send me an invitation, please.

I call first post on the next non-crisis.
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You've got it...if I see one come up, you get the first PM...:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
I think a lot of us here are just trying to scrape up the money to buy a Red camera, lens, and accessories. To build a "Reccomended" system would cost almost the price of another Red if not more, so I'm glad Red is revising the page. I guess this is the system you get to edit at full resolution which I have no intention of doing. I am used to working with the 28:1 or 14:1 Avid resolutions, and would happily save the full resolution media for the online process. This does raise the question again, though. For those of us who want to cut the show offline then online later, how difficult would that be?

If we don't have a system fast enough to run the online, that means going to a post house to do it. However, I don't know how many post houses are equiped to online something like Red footage. I guess if Red makes there media compatible with a popular editing system like Avid then it would be as simple as hooking up a hard drive (Really hoping that's the case) then outputting to whatever medium is desired. Still, that's an expensive prospect. After seeing pics of 2K and 4K footage, I think I would be happy onlining in 2K which should greatly decrease the demand of CPU power needed. Will Red come out with a spec sheet for those of us planning this route?
 
Poi Boy said:
Blaine, I'm with you,sounded like a rant..pc,mac,mac,pc; I thought that was a tired old story, use whatever platform works best for your particular task.
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yeah..

D_and_G said:
Although, I think most people here knew you were showing us your set up, and not the only one.
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sure..

Blaine said:
I'm not at all convinced of that from what I read on the first 3-4 pages of this thread. It looked more like an anti-FCP rant.
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it was not.. they/we're poor people.. and we have been doing sacrifices just for to buy our dream..



edit
and we're not interested to let it down..
just because one small group of rich people.. if these guys have money to leave to the steve jobs hands and co for their fancy mac computers.. it's not our problem.. go ahead.. but let us decide what we want to do with our own money.. pc via :thumbup:
 
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filmmaker1977 said:
it was not.. they're poor people.. they're have been sacrifices just for to buy their/our dream.. and we're not interested to let it down.. just because one small group have money to leave to the steve jobs hands and co for their fancy mac computers..
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And the rant returns...
 
Come on guys. It doesn't really matter what editing program you use, its what you do with it.

There's a lot other forums out there where you can vent about this subject. I just hope the this one doesn't become one.

We all have one common interest , the Red Revolution.
 
DrizztG said:
Come on guys. It doesn't really matter what editing program you use, its what you do with it.

There's a lot other forums out there where you can vent about this subject. I just hope the this one doesn't become one.
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Actually, lpcvideo1 was saying exactly that with his cleverly worded post. The problem here revolves around jumping the gun and reading too much into things. The guys at RED have all along said that RED would be cross platformed. Of course, there will have to be some reciprocity by the software manufacturers. That and, of course, pricing. No matter HOW LOW the price you are going to have individuals complain that it is too much. If RED was giving away their camera, there would be those that would still find some way to complain.
 
Blaine said:
And the rant returns...
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call it what you want.. that's my/our money not yours.. that's our interest.. yours? your on your own.. to each his own..

blaine, i understand your point.. but if there are a lot of professionals at fcp side, the others.. we the majority.. sometimes, it seems as you were the masses.. and the fcp users, the elite..

i don't know any avid/pc editors --moving--> fcp

but i couldn't say the opposite.. at least, in europe.. and it is a premiere user who speaks (do you know why?.. it is the cheaper way to edit.. web free download available.. eheheh :))

these protests :angry: were coming from the red/pc believers.. those who believe in this revolution (for us, red/mac won't be such revolution) this is just a way of freedom of speech in any way other than as fighting for our interests.. if yours is the red/mac matching, the ours is to have an equal treatment coming from the red development team.. graeme is nearby mac as he honestly posted.. his filters etc.. it's not difficult to follow our reasons/concern..

DrizztG said:
Come on guys. It doesn't really matter what editing program you use, its what you do with it.

There's a lot other forums out there where you can vent about this subject. I just hope the this one doesn't become one.

We all have one common interest , the Red Revolution.
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you said all..
 
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As a company, RED is platform agnostic. We're a camera company and hence want support from all platforms. However, as individual people, we have our noted preferences.
 
agreed.. as jarred is used to say.. to each his own.. here: we're playing our role as red customers and you, yours as red development team.. giving what the market demands.. your market.. the red market.. the majority of the 700 reservations..
 
DrizztG said:
Come on guys. It doesn't really matter what editing program you use, its what you do with it.
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If the footage you acquire isn't compatible with the NLE you use, it matters a whole heck of a lot. Look at what happened with the HVX and Vegas. I am not worried as much about RED as it seems that their conversion software should make the footage compatible with just about any program that we use, but of course none of us have used it or know how it operates yet. Additionally, the point of working with proxies allows you to cut and deal with 4K footage without having to have the most ridiculously powerful computer possible. If I don't have to spend another $3,000+ to work with RED if I don't have to, I'm certainly not going to. I didn't get to see the "reccommended specs" page before they took it down, but I certainly hope they are taking the offline editing routes into consideration.

Graeme_Nattress said:
However, as individual people, we have our noted preferences.
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Your preferences have been noted.
 
Haakon said:
If the footage you acquire isn't compatible with the NLE you use, it matters a whole heck of a lot. Look at what happened with the HVX and Vegas.
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:thumbup:

i think if it's down now it will be for a good cause.. the red team is listening.. after all, the red revolution is for all.. :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
As indicated before you can at least export to something you can edit with.
So every editing system on the planet can work with the footage one way
or another. Obviously everyone wants native support etc....

To the Vegas user: I love Vegas myself, but as far as I know it is only 8-bits
(per sample), doesn't understand 10-bits...
 
All red reservation holders remain calm... platform debates often result in pointless discussions. Lets be the "the kids are united" community here...

To the Topic:
The inexpensive non-linear-editing systems (Premiere Pro, Final Cut Pro and it seems Vegas, i don´t own that one) offer really great funcionality for their prices.

Also, the midlevel workstation (2000-10000€$) of 2006 offers good performance. Apple made the switch to PC anyhow, so it is only a OS-question.

And here is the problem: for solid 4K handling, there are no FCP/PPro solutions yet, at least none i am aware of.

However, i suppose that many red-cinematographers will want to use the 4K resolution. And my main concern is - there is no 4K finishing on OS X, yet.

On the other hand, here is a partial list of some of the classic PC 4K NLE/DI/Mastering Solutions on windows/linux:

DVS clipster (very very fast)
http://www.dvs.de/Brochures/DVS_CLIPSTER.pdf
http://www.dvs.de/pix/products/CLIPSTER/CLIPSTER_2006_300dpi.jpg
discreet lustre
http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/Lustre27_tech_specs.pdf
quantel pablo & iQ
http://www.quantel.com/site/en.nsf/html/pablo_home?OpenDocument
filmlight northlight (i really like their human interface, the blackboard is great)
http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/baselight.html
Softimage DS Nitris
http://avid.com/products/dsnitris/nitris/
Assimilate Scratch
http://www.assimilateinc.com/scratch.html
Iridias Speedgrade / Framecycler (I don´t know how SG handles the 4K, the Framecyclers 10K installations are somewhat impressive however)
http://www.framecycler.com/venuesystem/


All of them are functional, in the market since years, many highly talent people use these systems on a daily basis and many companies (including mine) sourrounded those and similar boxes with _heavy_ ¥€$ equipment, which anyone will want to use for their cinematic master. Might it be a film recorder, a DCI-encoding solution or simply studio level 4K/2K projection and/or class 1/709 monitoring. And i wouldn´t know OSX basing alternatives to these bigger systems (hopefully somebody can tell me that i am wrong, but i would be surprised...)

so, in my humble opinion, it would be a bad decision for RED to focus -only- on the inexpensive, open PPro/AE/combustion & FCP/motion market. Great tools for a great price, but for us here at laguun, only being able to use these and leaving our heavy irons out of the pipeline would be a giant step backward, and we are only a mid-size company.

At least in the early days, no-one will finish reds 4K from FCP/Ppro. And as most 4k mastering systems are windows/linux, OSX will have (besides its great role as NLE/VFX with FCP/shake) rarely to be the mastering system for the red 4k movies.

I think it is important (for some tasks even cruicial) to keep an eye on this.

The red-cine approach/workflow is great. open, flexible, versatile. What is highly important is that the redcines re-online works with EDLs and DPX - thiss is still the lingua franka of top-end post. In 2006 & 2007, as nice AAF can and hopefully will become, it is still fully under construction. One can go avid->fcp->combustion->premiere and will mainly have minor losses and bugs etc. But if you try to bring AAF to a northlight... that will be nightmarish.

Editorial is only -one- of many complex steps in DI/Digital cinematic mastering, and certainly one if not the cheapest one. Decent colorcorrection/grading and especially mastering to filmneg or dci will cost much more.

ps. i hope nobody gets this post wrong - i would love to see a 4k solution on osx and/or premiere and the FCP/PPro NLE 2k/1080 editorial is a great price/performance ratio. also, i started editing&vfx with mac (~91). However when i look at the ~50 x86 cpus here on the network, which i suppose is not untypical for the midsize houses, i am really looking forward to torture them with 4k redraws and i don´t think that the master out will be ppro/fcp for quite a while...
 
laguun said:
Apple made the switch to PC anyhow
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I'm not going to turn this into a debate here, but you are completely wrong on this point.

The rest of the post was fantastic.
 
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