Reservation holders got a letter
- Thread starter Jay A. Kelley
- Start date
Haakon,
You've stated the obvious. With all due respect, I am more than aware that RED is working on multiple lenses for future release.
Furthermore, I'd debate that there is an obvious, calculated and intentional push to get the 300mm to market first - or, uh, they wouldn't be manufacturing it first. Do you think Jannard does anything unintentionally?! I was merely asking what that thought process was.
My greater general point was that the 300mm is a decidedly odd initial offering for filmmakers who want to utilize the camera in mainstream film or broadcast markets. I'm not in any way questioning that it would be a nice tool in the filmmaker's [eventual] lens arsenal.
e
You've stated the obvious. With all due respect, I am more than aware that RED is working on multiple lenses for future release.
Furthermore, I'd debate that there is an obvious, calculated and intentional push to get the 300mm to market first - or, uh, they wouldn't be manufacturing it first. Do you think Jannard does anything unintentionally?! I was merely asking what that thought process was.
My greater general point was that the 300mm is a decidedly odd initial offering for filmmakers who want to utilize the camera in mainstream film or broadcast markets. I'm not in any way questioning that it would be a nice tool in the filmmaker's [eventual] lens arsenal.
e
As long as we're in a battle of semantics today, the quote is: "Do or do not. There is no try."
:love4:
e
:love4:
e
Gibby
Red Savant
Overland,
Sports television is one of my core areas. It's true that in HD and SD coverage of sports for TV, ENG-style zooms (mobile), or box lens zooms (stationary) are the norm. For continuous coverage of many sports with RED a 2/3" HD ENG zoom and 1080p will be the ticket - no matte box or follow focus, simply servo zoom and focus racking. As I've previously posted, you can find used HD ENG zooms for as little as $6k if you look. What hasn't been defined is if RED will have a multipin bus to power ENG-style lenses from the camera, and/or an RS232 bus to control ENG-style lenses. With 1080p, 1080i, and 720p resolutions and B4 mounts planned for the camera, I think RED knows well that the camera will also be used for HDTV production. At IBC we'll find out what they have planned...
Even for sports events where an ENG-style zoom is best for continuous coverage, the 300mm could be used for a b-roll camera getting hyper-creative in-bump/out-bump and opening/closing montage shots, film-style, shallow DOF CU's, etc. For many action sports the 300mm, with a 2x extender handy if needed, will work quite well. For example, in shooting surfing at many breaks where the camera setup is straight on, its a simple pan right or left, nothing is coming toward or away from you, shot at around f8 on a sunny day. If you were setup end-on then a zoom would be a better choice. In shooting skiing or snowboarding from side-on the 300mm would work well. There are many other examples. I've directed and shot about 40 different sports for network programs and series. I can visualize each of those and see distinct niche applications for the 300mm. I'm a judge for the National Sports Emmy Awards each year in New York. When we judge cinematography as a craft, or programs as a whole, the shows that seem to impress the judges the most are the ones with really filmic opening/closing montages, with shallow DOF, glass-smooth slo-mo CUs of athletes in motion, etc., followed by great content. Example: the multiple Emmy Award winning Ironman Championships.
I have ordered a RED 300mm and I can't wait to incorporate it into my sports productions, naturally along with a 2/3" HD ENG zoom.
I also do a lot of nature production. The 300mm lens, with a 2x handy will be exactly the ticket I need for much of that. The Oscar-winning documentary “March of the Penguins” could have used RED with a 300mm and a 2x, if it had been available when they were shooting. My nature stock footage licenses out real well. The RED 300mm, with 2x, will be a new valuable tool for that component of my business.
There are a lot of sports, nature, travel, and stock footage shooters out there who will probably snap up the RED 300mm for their lens package.
As RED has said, the 300mm was simply the first lens ready…but I think many shooters, myself included, will use it a lot.
Also, as Jarred has mentioned, when he saw the prototype RED 300mm used for test shooting in scripted narrative style, he was impressed with its possibilities.
By the way, I really enjoyed your Driver X series on Discovery Channel. Excellent programs!
Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com
Sports television is one of my core areas. It's true that in HD and SD coverage of sports for TV, ENG-style zooms (mobile), or box lens zooms (stationary) are the norm. For continuous coverage of many sports with RED a 2/3" HD ENG zoom and 1080p will be the ticket - no matte box or follow focus, simply servo zoom and focus racking. As I've previously posted, you can find used HD ENG zooms for as little as $6k if you look. What hasn't been defined is if RED will have a multipin bus to power ENG-style lenses from the camera, and/or an RS232 bus to control ENG-style lenses. With 1080p, 1080i, and 720p resolutions and B4 mounts planned for the camera, I think RED knows well that the camera will also be used for HDTV production. At IBC we'll find out what they have planned...
Even for sports events where an ENG-style zoom is best for continuous coverage, the 300mm could be used for a b-roll camera getting hyper-creative in-bump/out-bump and opening/closing montage shots, film-style, shallow DOF CU's, etc. For many action sports the 300mm, with a 2x extender handy if needed, will work quite well. For example, in shooting surfing at many breaks where the camera setup is straight on, its a simple pan right or left, nothing is coming toward or away from you, shot at around f8 on a sunny day. If you were setup end-on then a zoom would be a better choice. In shooting skiing or snowboarding from side-on the 300mm would work well. There are many other examples. I've directed and shot about 40 different sports for network programs and series. I can visualize each of those and see distinct niche applications for the 300mm. I'm a judge for the National Sports Emmy Awards each year in New York. When we judge cinematography as a craft, or programs as a whole, the shows that seem to impress the judges the most are the ones with really filmic opening/closing montages, with shallow DOF, glass-smooth slo-mo CUs of athletes in motion, etc., followed by great content. Example: the multiple Emmy Award winning Ironman Championships.
I have ordered a RED 300mm and I can't wait to incorporate it into my sports productions, naturally along with a 2/3" HD ENG zoom.
I also do a lot of nature production. The 300mm lens, with a 2x handy will be exactly the ticket I need for much of that. The Oscar-winning documentary “March of the Penguins” could have used RED with a 300mm and a 2x, if it had been available when they were shooting. My nature stock footage licenses out real well. The RED 300mm, with 2x, will be a new valuable tool for that component of my business.
There are a lot of sports, nature, travel, and stock footage shooters out there who will probably snap up the RED 300mm for their lens package.
As RED has said, the 300mm was simply the first lens ready…but I think many shooters, myself included, will use it a lot.
Also, as Jarred has mentioned, when he saw the prototype RED 300mm used for test shooting in scripted narrative style, he was impressed with its possibilities.
By the way, I really enjoyed your Driver X series on Discovery Channel. Excellent programs!
Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com
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for now i will not be getting the RED 300mm ..
i need a lens that i will use everyday.
i have a $$ figure i want to come in under ( camera, lens, recording media,accessories, tripod) ...
300mm is on my rent when needed list.
and as RED would say - that could change at anytime !!!
i need a lens that i will use everyday.
i have a $$ figure i want to come in under ( camera, lens, recording media,accessories, tripod) ...
300mm is on my rent when needed list.
and as RED would say - that could change at anytime !!!
For the record, Driver X wasn't our series. I DP'd under Mr. Tom Innskeep on that show. Thanks for the very kind words, though!
I totally hear you on the 300mm for natural and sports photography. Bringing a fast, high-performance prime tele lens to the table, which presumably would set the speed benchmark (do I hear 3.4?) for even faster, shorter matched primes, is certainly brilliant and good news for all of us who endeavor to maintain our own DP packages.
I'd love to see a full assortment of lenses from RED - 15mm, 20mm, 28mm, 55mm 70mm and 300mm - all with common front element diameter (e.g., DigiPrimes are a lovely and servicable 95mm), 1/3 stop incremental foot / meter markings and so forth.
With respect to utilizing a 300mm widely in narrative, I'd just say that most cramped, often practical independent sets (or wild-wall studio features for that matter) won't accommodate a 300mm lens easily.
If we're talking about lensing a new-era The Conversation or The French Connection or The Conformist under the expert direction of the venerable Michael Bay or the such (all with telephoto ECU framing from a city block away), then I say bring it! F-ing bring it!
e
I totally hear you on the 300mm for natural and sports photography. Bringing a fast, high-performance prime tele lens to the table, which presumably would set the speed benchmark (do I hear 3.4?) for even faster, shorter matched primes, is certainly brilliant and good news for all of us who endeavor to maintain our own DP packages.
I'd love to see a full assortment of lenses from RED - 15mm, 20mm, 28mm, 55mm 70mm and 300mm - all with common front element diameter (e.g., DigiPrimes are a lovely and servicable 95mm), 1/3 stop incremental foot / meter markings and so forth.
With respect to utilizing a 300mm widely in narrative, I'd just say that most cramped, often practical independent sets (or wild-wall studio features for that matter) won't accommodate a 300mm lens easily.
If we're talking about lensing a new-era The Conversation or The French Connection or The Conformist under the expert direction of the venerable Michael Bay or the such (all with telephoto ECU framing from a city block away), then I say bring it! F-ing bring it!
e
Unless I had too many Guinness at lunch, am I getting this right ? :
1. New Zoom announced at ibc (sans price).
2. Reservations going to be taken for said zoom.
If this is so, then I may have to free up some lettuce. Ibc sounds sweeter and sweeter by the day :beer:
RED# wish I was higher
1. New Zoom announced at ibc (sans price).
2. Reservations going to be taken for said zoom.
If this is so, then I may have to free up some lettuce. Ibc sounds sweeter and sweeter by the day :beer:
RED# wish I was higher
donatello said:
Could be the Guinness, but Jim said this -
We already know the price of the 300, don't we ? Thus, my lager loving brain concludes he is talking about a zoom announcement ! :grin:
I realize they aren't going to announce specific details officially, but should I have my reservation lettuce ready for Ibc ?
RED# wish I was higher
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Since the 300mm is a prime, there is only one zoom being talked about for now. I can't imagine they'll be taking reservations on it yet since they don't expect to have a price established by then. There's nothing in the letter about reservations for the zoom, only the 300mm.
adaml said:
That's it. Only 1 Guinness at lunch henceforth. I know it's a prime, but in my backwards way , I was hoping to get whether it was an announcement of an approx. 18-100mm zoom (or 15-40) and not a longer one (since they started at the long end with the primes). I guess I didn't explain very clearly. Just want to make sure I didn't misread, and/or miss out on reservation info. :beer:
PS - Is the reservation method going to be used with all future RED accessories/lenses etc ... ?
REd # wish I was higher
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Lol. I guess I gotta get that refund from "speed reading 101".Haakon said:Considering that Jim's quote says "We are hoping to announce the zoom range...", I would say it's safe to bet that he's talking about the zoom lens.:thumbup:
I should delete my posts (since Emanuel already asked the main two questions I wanted answered), but what the heck -
1. Are we talking about a wide zoom ?
2. Are there gonna be reservations on this baby, and when ?
RED # wish I was higher
PS - For all you kids out there, don't have a 2-3 drink lunch, skim through a thread, then post. FYI
Hi Erik,overlandfilms said:
With all due respect, the fact that they are producing lenses was just part of my answer.
Your inital question was:"I'm certain that the decision [to develop primes] was driven by to-market-cost against engineering and manufacturing concerns? If so, why not introduce a 55mm first? Ostensibly, every operator will have an immediate and pressing need for this length over the limited 300mm?"
If the answer was obvious, you woudn't have asked the question.
So I explained that they are hard at work on many lenses, but the 300mm was ready first. As in, before a 55mm prime or before any other zoom lens. That's all... I don't think there's a big conspiracy going on.I absolutely agree that Jim's a very sharp man and he's not doing anything with this project unintentionally. But I think the priority is the camera itself - there is SO much to do in so little time - and they not only want to deliver the best product they possibly can to the market, but they want to meet their deadlines and goals the best they are able to. When IBC hits, people are going to be LINED UP to see the first footage from Red: to see what the hype is all about, to see if they can actually deliver, to see just how amazing a camera Red really is. My guess is that less people (at this point in time) are more worried about how much ghosting the 300mm lens produces or how resistent to chromatic abberation it is.
That of course will come in time, but also remember that Red has a PL mount and works with a plethora of lenses already on the market. They don't even need to be developing lenses for it at all. As has been mentioned previously as well, however, cine-style glass is expensive and they would like to help make quality shooting more affordable to those who are really serious about it. And bless their hearts for it!
So while most of us were scratching our heads at the announcement of a 300mm lens being their first offering (from a usability point of view), it has been disucssed ad nausem on this and other forums and the official word from Jim is that this particular lens just came together the fastest and they wanted to be able to offer it for those who were interested. Keep in mind that the camera still has a good four months to go before they anticipate making engineering samples, and things are changing with this project every day. Given that they're announcing details of the zoom at IBC, it's obvious they're working hard on the other lenses, too, and who knows what else might be offered when the camera actually comes out. If they had announced the zoom first and then the 300mm next, I don't think as many people would be questioning it, but if they end up both being available roughly around the time the camera is made for sale then it doesn't really matter, does it? And maybe the zoom won't be quite ready yet, we don't know. But I still think that the camera itself is the priority and there isn't some grand scheme to push 300mm lenses on the rest of us.
Just the way their progress is flowing...
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Well, given that they're releasing the details on the zoom range at IBC,D_and_G said:
we don't know how wide it is yet. Just have to wait and see!! As for reservations, I am sure they will be offered - but they aren't planning to release pricing information (even at IBC) yet, so I'd gander that it's a bit premature for that.
Everything will come in due time!
Jay A. Kelley
Well-known member
Part of me regrets starting this thread since the only reply I ever got from Jannard was to tell me how wrong I was about the 300mm lenses in regards to reservation, I don't do sports or nature and I usually am not in a location and allows for a 300mm lens in my work... Oh well.
However, through this thread I learned they are going to announce some specs on a zoom lens at IBC.. This I did not know and it's very exciting. I am not too worried about price since I know he will keep it as low as possible, I am a lot more concerned about the release date of the zoom lens since I do not have a lens that will work on the RED and I would prefer to purchase the camera and the lens at the same time so I would not have to buy more than one piece of glass for right now. As I see it, just kind of guessing here, 18k for body and cage, 2000 for HD and misc. and perhaps $6k for lens. So I'm going to try to budge around $26,000 to get started.. Hopefully this will get the wheels on my camera!
I'm excited about that lens.. That was the final piece for me!
Jay
However, through this thread I learned they are going to announce some specs on a zoom lens at IBC.. This I did not know and it's very exciting. I am not too worried about price since I know he will keep it as low as possible, I am a lot more concerned about the release date of the zoom lens since I do not have a lens that will work on the RED and I would prefer to purchase the camera and the lens at the same time so I would not have to buy more than one piece of glass for right now. As I see it, just kind of guessing here, 18k for body and cage, 2000 for HD and misc. and perhaps $6k for lens. So I'm going to try to budge around $26,000 to get started.. Hopefully this will get the wheels on my camera!
I'm excited about that lens.. That was the final piece for me!
Jay
I have absolutely no response to that.
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
Gibby
Red Savant
Jay A. Kelley said:
I'm excited about the RED wide zoom too! For my genres of production, I hope to use that wide zoom, a good wide cine prime, the 300mm, a few of my manual Nikkor lenses, and a used 2/3" HD ENG zoom as my basic RED package kit, then rent everything else as needed on a per-project basis.
Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com