ZOOM H1/H4n Sescom Cable clarification help please.

J

Jonathan12uiz

Well-known member
Ok so my current plan is to get a ZOOM H1, mount it to my shoulder rig on a shock mount, and have a RODE VideoMicPro or wireless lav setup plugged in.

Here is where my confusion come in.

The ZOOM H1 and H4n have headphone outputs on the device themselves, so couldn't I just plug up my BOSE headphones into the jack and monitor from there?

So why would I need a splitter cable from the H1/H4n to the GH1 that has a 3.5mm out jack for headphones. (http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?item=LN2MIC-ZMGH-MON)

Couldn't I just get the 25dB att )http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?item=LN2MIC-ZMH4-GH1), because like I said there is a headphone out on the device already.

Also...

This 25dB att. cable does not disable AGC on the GH1, so I will still have AGC problems right? Or will the H1/H4n output keep the GH1 onboard sound @ good levels?

or will I have to get this AGC disable cable (http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?item=DSLR-AGCY), run an mp3 player with the tone on it, and plug into the GH1?

So then the setup would become:

RODE VideoMicPro -> H1 w/connected headphones -> Sescom AGC disable cable (THIS) w/ tone playing mp3 player -> 3.5mm male/female coupler -> Sescom GH1 25dB cable (THIS)

Or if I wanted to get a cable I could use with a canon if need be I could replace the GH1 att cable with this setup:

Sescom 25dB att 3.5mm to 3.5mm (THIS) -> 3.5mm to 2.5mm angle adapter (THIS)

So am I getting this all correct? or can I just use the 25dB cable and H1 will take care of AGC? I'm trying to get the best audio out of the on board camera sound to avoid having to sync in post. Of course with the H1 setup I will always have a higher quality backup that I could sync if I wanted better audio, but the main reason I got the H1 is for monitoring levels visually and through headphones.
 
Last edited:
the problem with the zoom H1 is there is only one output, so you cannot plug a headphone and have line out at same time.
if you use a splitter, then you have the problem with the level, line out is too weak for headphone and headphone out is too high for mic input on GH1.
So you are right you need to split the signal and use either an att. cable or a line booster like the FIIO
http://cgi.ebay.com/FiiO-E5-mp3-Hea..._HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item518ce4d260

since both cost the same, you have the choice.

none of these solution will care about the AGC, it is a problem inside the camera ou can solve with a hack (internal) or by feeding some signal to fool the AGC.
I think the headphone amplifier gives more value, since you can use it for other purpose, and you can modify the headphone volume from the booster.
 
Last edited:
nosys70 said:
the problem with the zoom H1 is there is only one output, so you cannot plug a headphone and have line out at same time.
if you use a splitter, then you have the problem with the level, line out is too weak for headphone and headphone out is too high for mic input on GH1.
So you are right you need to split the signal and use either an att. cable or a line booster like the FIIO
http://cgi.ebay.com/FiiO-E5-mp3-Hea..._HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item518ce4d260

since both cost the same, you have the choice.

none of these solution will care about the AGC, it is a problem inside the camera ou can solve with a hack (internal) or by feeding some signal to fool the AGC.
I think the headphone amplifier gives more value, since you can use it for other purpose, and you can modify the headphone volume from the booster.
Click to expand...

So then my best setup would be:

RODE VideoMicPro -> ZOOM H1 -> Sescom AGC disable cable (THIS) w/ tone playing mp3 player -> 3.5mm female/female coupler (THIS) -> Sescom GH1 25dB cable w/monitor tap to headphones (THIS)

that setup would work wouldn't it? or should I swap where the agc cable and att cable are located so that I don't here the tone in my headphones?
 
stonebat said:
Man... just get JuicedLink DS214. Ask Robert from JL for 3.5mm/2.5mm Cable. It's designed for VMP.
Click to expand...

They say the release date was mid feb. Its still not available on their site. Says sold out, but i'm not sure if its sold out or just not realeased yet. BTW they also don't even list a price for the thing. I'm thinking that the setup I'm looking to create will be a lot cheaper and will have better audio since I will have the 24wav file from the H1 that I can use.

My setup will also leave me the ability to omit the H1 and just use the AGC disable for even quicker run and gun, yes no metering, but this would be for stuff like Youtube videos or home videos when I'm out traveling.
 
Jonathan12uiz said:
So then my best setup would be:

RODE VideoMicPro -> ZOOM H1 -> Sescom AGC disable cable (THIS) w/ tone playing mp3 player -> 3.5mm female/female coupler (THIS) -> Sescom GH1 25dB cable w/monitor tap to headphones (THIS)

that setup would work wouldn't it? or should I swap where the agc cable and att cable are located so that I don't here the tone in my headphones?
Click to expand...

Hmmm... There are problems here (other than this being a pretty complex set up). The input on the Sescom AGC disable cable is looking for a mic-level signal, and the headphone output on the Zoom H1 is line-level. I'm not really sure what that coupler is doing.

1) Plug the Rode VideoMic Pro into a H1. So far so good.

2) Plug the Sescom GH1 25dB cable w/monitor tap into the headphone output of the H1

3) Plug the mic-level output of that Sescom cable into the mic-level input on the AGC disable Sescom cable

4) Plug the MP3 player into the Mp3 player side of the AGC disable cable

5) Plug the DSLR input end of the AGC disable cable into the camera

It just might work.

::Edit:: Scratch that. The AGC disable cable would need to have a 2.5mm output, and the GH1 25dB cabme wouldn't fit into the 3.5mm jack on the other cable. My suggestion is no good. Sorry!
 
Last edited:
Sam Mallery said:
Hmmm... There are problems here (other than this being a pretty complex set up). The input on the Sescom AGC disable cable is looking for a mic-level signal, and the headphone output on the Zoom H1 is line-level. I'm not really sure what that coupler is doing.

1) Plug the Rode VideoMic Pro into a H1. So far so good.

2) Plug the Sescom GH1 25dB cable w/monitor tap into the headphone output of the H1

3) Plug the mic-level output of that Sescom cable into the mic-level input on the AGC disable Sescom cable

4) Plug the MP3 player into the Mp3 player side of the AGC disable cable

5) Plug the DSLR input end of the AGC disable cable into the camera

It just might work.

::Edit:: Scratch that. The AGC disable cable would need to have a 2.5mm output, and the GH1 25dB cabme wouldn't fit into the 3.5mm jack on the other cable. My suggestion is no good. Sorry!
Click to expand...

In theory the coupler is just connecting the 2 cables...

The signal out from the H1 goes to the sescom AGC disable cable, where a 19Khz tone is being played on one channel, to trick AGC incam and the clean signal is then connected to the 25dB att cable through the coupler to carry the clean signal into the GH1 so the audio wont record @ high levels incam because of the H1's level output.

correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Why deal with this mess? The GH1 is not meant to record your audio. Record the audio to the Zoom and use the GH1 as a guide track and be done with it.
 
Blackout said:
Why deal with this mess? The GH1 is not meant to record your audio. Record the audio to the Zoom and use the GH1 as a guide track and be done with it.
Click to expand...

For VIP projects I will, but sometimes I just really don't want to spend the time syncing the audio... even with plural eyes... sometimes I just don't want to spend the time... This would @ least give me the best audio incam possible so things like family reunions or something can be edited quickly.

Honestly If this was my full time gig, I would prolly not do this, but with 2 jobs and a kid... sometimes I just wanna get the edit done quick. ya know.
 
I see what you're saying. I guess I'm just so used to syncing audio that I can do it in my sleep... but I'll admit I don't enjoy it.
 
Jonathan12uiz said:
correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

This stuff makes my brain hurt.

I think you might be wrong. The female to female stereo 3.5mm coupler still seems redundant. I don't think it's going to work without an additional 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter.

The following schematic won't work because you're sending the AGC defeat into the Zoom H1, not into the GH2:

Rode VideoMic MP3 Player
\ /
Zoom H1----<---AGC Cable
/
-25dB Cable
/ \
GH2 Headphones


The following schematic "works," but it requires an additional 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter:

Rode VideoMic
\
Zoom H1-------> -25dB Cable
/ \
AGC Cable Headphones
/ \
3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter MP3 Player
/
GH2

The problem here is that it's a bit of a house of cards. The two cables... all of the exterior devices connected together... a cheap adapter... It just seems like if a cable or a device gets tugged in the wrong way, you could lose the audio connection. You'll have all of this gear Frankenstined together, and it's all getting piped down to a tiny 2.5mm input.

It seems like it will work, it just seems like it'll be a pretty fragile connection.

Is setting all of this up really easier than syncing sound? If the answer is yes, personally, I'd rather have a juicedLink box.
 
Sam Mallery said:
This stuff makes my brain hurt.

I think you might be wrong. The female to female stereo 3.5mm coupler still seems redundant. I don't think it's going to work without an additional 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter.

The following schematic won't work because you're sending the AGC defeat into the Zoom H1, not into the GH2:

Rode VideoMic MP3 Player
\ /
Zoom H1----<---AGC Cable
/
-25dB Cable
/ \
GH2 Headphones


The following schematic "works," but it requires an additional 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter:

Rode VideoMic
\
Zoom H1-------> -25dB Cable
/ \
AGC Cable Headphones
/ \
3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter MP3 Player
/
GH2

The problem here is that it's a bit of a house of cards. The two cables... all of the exterior devices connected together... a cheap adapter... It just seems like if a cable or a device gets tugged in the wrong way, you could lose the audio connection. You'll have all of this gear Frankenstined together, and it's all getting piped down to a tiny 2.5mm input.

It seems like it will work, it just seems like it'll be a pretty fragile connection.

Is setting all of this up really easier than syncing sound? If the answer is yes, personally, I'd rather have a juicedLink box.
Click to expand...

if you look @ the link of the gh1 monitor tap 25dB att cable, it is a 3.5mm input jack to a 2.5mm output. the 3.5mm input is getting a signal from the agc disable cable, through the 3.5mm female to female connector, which should be outputting a clean audio signal. so therefore I should be hearing a clean signal in the headphones and the gh1 should be recording a clean signal.

The cables will be cleaned up in a small enclosure to prevent tangling and just to look cleaner.

Everyone keeps saying they would just get a juicedlink, but they aren't in stock, they have no price, and I do believe my solution is a lot cheaper and my solution also has the option of using the H1's audio @ no additional cost. if i got the juicedlink, i would have to buy that AND the H1... resulting in a more expensive route. plus the D124 or whatever only looks like a 3 led meter. low med high... i dont know if i like that.

I'm no pro... if I was, I wouldn't be using either.

here is a pic i made of the setup... if you follow the glowing cables(which resemble the audio signal) this should work just fine.

vxihr0usegbxqdk7h544.jpg
 
Last edited:
although looking at the diagram now... I think I will switch the AGC and ATT cables around so that I can hear the left and right channels on the headphones properly... I will just use a 3.5mm to 2.5mm right angle adapter to plug the AGC into the cam.

and another question arises after looking at the pic... how does the stereo recording of the H1 get recorded on the cam...

since the AGC uses one channel to play 19khz...

then are the left and right channel of the H1 output combined in the other channel resulting in a stereo recording on a mono channel?
 
My brain still hurts.

Take another look at the Sescom AGC cable. It has a female 3.5mm on one end, which in your diagram is plugging into the female 3.5mm output on the Zoom H1 (which wouldn't happen).

although looking at the diagram now... I think I will switch the AGC and ATT cables around so that I can hear the left and right channels on the headphones properly... I will just use a 3.5mm to 2.5mm right angle adapter to plug the AGC into the cam.
Click to expand...

Just be sure not to buy the Sescom cable made for the GH cameras, otherwise you'll need to use more adapters.


I think I would just plug the Rode VideoMic into your GH13 with a 2.5mm adapter and be done with it.
 
Blackout said:
Why deal with this mess? The GH1 is not meant to record your audio. Record the audio to the Zoom and use the GH1 as a guide track and be done with it.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's so much easier to do it Blackouts way, and less can go wrong.

I couldn't imagine using an mp3 player with a tone to disable the agc blah, blah, blah. The h1 is a great little recorder, with excellent producing audio ability if used correctly. I did a bunch of tests with it using a bunch of different mics, and configurations. And to be completely honest, the h1 sounded best as a stand alone device, which will produce better sounding audio than using the rode vid mic plugged into it. It also works best when you use it at an angle. Instead of talking into it from the top or side, talk into it at both evenly. It also fits perfectly in a rubber WII (nintendo) remote protector. This will definetly add a little weight and keep it from breaking if you drop it. So I would just mount it on a hot shoe bracket, and sync in post. Which you know takes about three minutes of your time thats well worth the effort.
 
Sam Mallery said:
My brain still hurts.

Take another look at the Sescom AGC cable. It has a female 3.5mm on one end, which in your diagram is plugging into the female 3.5mm output on the Zoom H1 (which wouldn't happen).

Just be sure not to buy the Sescom cable made for the GH cameras, otherwise you'll need to use more adapters.


I think I would just plug the Rode VideoMic into your GH13 with a 2.5mm adapter and be done with it.
Click to expand...

LOL! so sorry I meant to put a 3.5mm male to 3.5mm female coupler. I kept saying f/f coupler... and linked to the wrong one. Sorry. other than that... it should work.
 
The OP is working with a GH1, but in case later readers skip straight to Sam's diagram I wanted to point out that the GH2 has manual audio level control .... and so the AGC-disable cable might not be needed in with that camera?
 
GrahamH said:
The OP is working with a GH1, but in case later readers skip straight to Sam's diagram I wanted to point out that the GH2 has manual audio level control .... and so the AGC-disable cable might not be needed in with that camera?
Click to expand...

Nope. It's still needed. The GH2 still has AGC that cannot be disabled, even with the audio level turned all the way down there is still AGC.

It's one of the biggest bummers I have with this camera.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top